Discussion: How to reduce "Face Hugging?"/"Face Hugging"



  • Face hugging is another of those issues that keeps coming up and throwing a wrench in balance. As it stands now it’s pretty much impossible to stop anyone from getting up close with you. The basis for this is the fact that you can sprint twice as fast as the enemy can back up. You can kick people to knock them back but this takes up a lot of stamina and only knocks them back for a second or two at most.

    To my understanding the devs are considering ways to reduce face hugging so why don’t we help them and try to come up with some ideas that they might like? It can be anything from making attacks do less damage up close or adding in a new mechanic like a shove.

    Please post any ideas you have but keep it civil and constructive! We’ll treat this like the feinting discussion. ASSUME that the devs are going to come up with ways to reduce face hugging and give your best ideas with that in mind!

    Some ideas I’ve had so far.

    1. New Pommel Bash/Punch mechanic
      The best suggestion I’ve heard for it is…
      -No damage
      -Decent stamina drain on the user
      -Interrupts opponents but only during their swings or feints
      -Has a low cooldown
      -Very short range

    2. Shove mechanic
      -Like a kick but knocks an opponent much farther back and has a long cooldown

    3. A modifier that makes attacks that start within a certain range of a player slower or do less damage

    4. Make attack do more knockback up close



  • but they’ve already said they’re adding a faster kick to the game



  • Have they? A faster kick will really help. That, in combination with the upcoming patch’s fix to blocking facehugging attacks will greatly improve gameplay.

    I’m not sure facehugging will be that big of an issue after these changes… but we’ll see.



  • yup, Sly was said a couple things about it
    fast kick, lookdown overhand changes, and feint nerf are all things that should be coming in the next patch

    oh and yes 1 handed weapon fix



  • We could have a sharp lance protruding out of everyone’s stomachs, that could be cool? I guess?

    But in all seriousness, we should be able to shove or have a fast kick. Preferably the shove imo.



  • forcefield bubbles disallowing combatants to get within range of each other. we wouldn’t want them to be close enough to attack in MELEE COMBAT lol



    • Kick/shove for player control. Fixing parries, weapons will help

    • Increasing the size of the body hitbox, or add one bigger, preventing collision

    • Just code tracers correctly : no damage hitbox on the handle, but hitbox on the handle which will stop at contact. This will prevent any form of facehugging : as in real life boxing, hugging and arms-wrapping prevent you to hit at kiss range. This way you can not hit your facehugged opponent, even in the back. Most realist solution though, if someone cares



  • Faster kick won’t be coming in the next patch. That’s something that, if we do implement it, will be further down the line as it requires code support and our programmers are always busy as it is.



  • Having a certain attack type that knocks people further back if they are close might be interesting…like you have to use the stab or overhead and it knocks them back more when they parry it within a certain range. Might be a decent temporary solution.



  • Going to reiterate, please god no faster kick. If an effect gets added to serve this purpose, it is absolutely imperative that it receives its own animation. The last thing we need in Chivalry is something that adds more ambiguity to gameplay.



  • If shield stun still persists, i will love reading those rage stories from shield users



  • @tomahawku:

    If shield stun still persists, i will love reading those rage stories from shield users

    shield users can stun them first though so it was a fair trade.



  • I think this is maybe a larger issue with 2H weapons. Right now a vanguard has 1 weapon to kill a MaA with 1 hit and its not easy (zweihander overhead in the head) and a knight has 2 if I am correct (maul overhead to head and torso + double axe overhead to head… and nobody uses the double axe). So vanguard generally 2shots MaA and MaA has plenty of possibilities to 2shot vanguard too.

    IMHO a good way to reduce facehugging would be to give some buff to 2H weapons which seem to be quite laughable right now because they don’t have so much greater damage output than 1H weapons and while their reach is higher, their speed is terrible so they can’t effectively stop facehuggers from crossing the distance. And they prevent having a shield of course.
    Concerning the buff, I would like to highlight that I don’t mean it should be damage buff. No. The weapons need to stay as different as they are and a damage buff would make them too streamlined IMHO.
    I would rather see them having some specialty - 1Hs’ specialty is the possibility of having shield, 2Hs’ speacialty could be for example their extreme weight. IRL, 2H weapons were always really the beasts and you would not like to be close to their wielder because of the sheer power. It was almost impossible to block them because a 1H weapon would not hold the block while a shield could crack. So maybe the 2handers could have more force behind them - when they hit an enemy and the enemy blocks/parries successfully, he would be bounced back much more than now so he would have to cross the distance again and it would be much more difficult to facehug. Facehugging could then stay the same and it would be a suitable punishment for 2H-wielders allowing enemies to get in close.



  • Face hugging is pretty annoying right now with how weapon swings work since it can really fuck with the direction of swings and make it so you need to turn almost 180 degrees to block an attack like from what was shown in that How to block a falchion video.

    The problem with it right now is that in Chivalry, your characters arms have no collisions. They’re basically ghost arms that phase through everything while swinging. This really messes with attacks at extreme close range and can create the illusion that your arms are almost wrapping around your opponent and attacking from behind from their perspective. And I have a few ideas on how to help counter this effect:

    My first idea is to slightly increase the collision hitboxes between characters on opposing teams to simulate the effects of not being able to swing your weapon effectively while right up against another person. This way you won’t be able to get as close to enemies and your weapon won’t appear to be ghosting through them to attack from the sides or, in the case of weapons like spears, stabbing them from the inside. The collision hitboxes between teammates would be kept the same to prevent congestion when trying to navigate through tight spaces as a group.

    Second could be the possibility of actually making arms act like physical objects and if you try and swing at someone when you are too close to them your attack will recoil due to your arms not having enough space to swing properly and connect with your opponent. This would make the combat similar to the Mount and Blade games, where it is important to maintain a minimum range away from your opponent while dueling in order for attacks to be completed properly. Although I’m not sure if this can be implemented properly with the engine without making combat feel awkward with attacks constantly appearing to just bounce off mid-air.

    My final idea involves changing around the speed of all classes, which would change the way combat works quite drastically and not be just related to face hugging. Right now there are only two speeds for your characters in Chivalry: walking and sprinting. And since sprinting doesn’t take stamina and you can attack multiple times without breaking your sprint, a lot of players try to get themselves into a constant sprint so they can easily close the distance between themselves and their opponents and stay in their face constantly. This results in a lot of face hugging since it is almost impossible to back away from someone when they can stay sprinting indefinitely, even when they’re playing a slow class like the knight. So what I propose is that sprinting is changed so that it actually costs stamina to use and attacking while sprinting causes the sprint to be interrupted. And to still allow fast-paced footwork in combat I suggest that the base speed of all classes be increased slightly so it feels more like a jog or a slow run instead of a walk when you aren’t sprinting and it leaves sprinting as a more situational ability instead of something that everyone relies on to keep right in their opponent’s face.



  • @delta:

    • Kick/shove for player control. Fixing parries, weapons will help

    • Increasing the size of the body hitbox, or add one bigger, preventing collision

    • Just code tracers correctly : no damage hitbox on the handle, but hitbox on the handle which will stop at contact. This will prevent any form of facehugging : as in real life boxing, hugging and arms-wrapping prevent you to hit at kiss range. This way you can not hit your facehugged opponent, even in the back. Most realist solution though, if someone cares

    +1
    But as Dick said, i don’t see how people are going to be able to differentiate between the two kicks visually. IMHO just get rid of the current kick and return it to the way it was. This will solve most people’s problems.



  • Make kicks viable again by returning their speed to what it used to be. Make it so that the closer 2 people are to one another, the farther back the person being kicked is flung. Fix 1h weapons’ shitboxes hitboxes. Increase backpedal speed for all classes. Disable the chase mechanic when facing an opponent’s front. Any of these would help.



  • @giantyak:

    @delta:

    • Kick/shove for player control. Fixing parries, weapons will help

    • Increasing the size of the body hitbox, or add one bigger, preventing collision

    • Just code tracers correctly : no damage hitbox on the handle, but hitbox on the handle which will stop at contact. This will prevent any form of facehugging : as in real life boxing, hugging and arms-wrapping prevent you to hit at kiss range. This way you can not hit your facehugged opponent, even in the back. Most realist solution though, if someone cares

    +1
    But as Dick said, i don’t see how people are going to be able to differentiate between the two kicks visually. IMHO just get rid of the current kick and return it to the way it was. This will solve most people’s problems.

    Why would you need to differentiate? A kick is unblockable. The needed reaction to a kick is the same regardless of the type (lower shield if using one, nothing otherwise). The only problem is that some players might be confused about why they were stunned longer, as the tutorial doesn’t teach stuff like this. But then again the tutorial doesn’t teach you about shield kicks anyway.



  • What if you can “kick the facehugger in the balls” ? meaning that a kick to the groin would only work if the opponent is directly in front of you facehugging you. This kick to the groin could give a small flinch effect maybe?



  • @Hitom:

    What if you can “kick the facehugger in the balls” ? meaning that a kick to the groin would only work if the opponent is directly in front of you facehugging you. This kick to the groin could give a small flinch effect maybe?

    So perfectly deserving of a face hugger with bad breath



  • Just want to say that any changes to prevent face hugging should keep Daggers in mind. These weapons absolutely REQUIRE you to be that close to someone and we should be careful not to do anything that might make Daggers useless.


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