Discussion: How to reduce "Face Hugging?"/"Face Hugging"



  • @NabsterHax:

    I say we shouldn’t change anything about face-hugging until alt-swing bugs are fixed, too. It’s hard right now to know if you’ve screwed up (and how) when it’s possible that the game just animated the wrong thing. We can’t really test balance and consistency on the game until we know what we’re seeing.

    Yes my lord, YES. YES m’lord!



  • I think the problem with Face hugging is that those with higher FOVs aren’t affected as much as those with lower FOVs. The player in front of you appears further back, so it becomes easier to parry. When the player covers up the entirety of your screen on default or less FOV, you have to turn further and faster to get everything in your view. People that use 120 or so FOV will therefore obviously say there’s less of an issue with face hugging, because they can see more of the model and weapon at all times. All I’m saying is, there are people with completely different FOVs discussing a topic which affects you differently, one situation for one person looks completely different to another person. There is no universal right or wrong here unless everyone sees things exactly the same way.



  • @Martin:

    I think the problem with Face hugging is that those with higher FOVs aren’t affected as much as those with lower FOVs. The player in front of you appears further back, so it becomes easier to parry. When the player covers up the entirety of your screen on default or less FOV, you have to turn further and faster to get everything in your view. People that use 120 or so FOV will therefore obviously say there’s less of an issue with face hugging, because they can see more of the model and weapon at all times. All I’m saying is, there are people with completely different FOVs discussing a topic which affects you differently, one situation for one person looks completely different to another person. There is no universal right or wrong here unless everyone sees things exactly the same way.

    I’ve often wondered if this is true. I know it is easier to keep the weapon on your screen in 120, but from playing it for a while it seems as though you still have to turn just as much to block them since you have to turn your body the same to block a strike coming at your sides/back regardless of how much you can see, but it does make it easier to judge how far to turn for those strikes. Although I do agree, everyone sees different things and it becomes harder to determine if there is a problem or not.

    @NabsterHax:

    I say we shouldn’t change anything about face-hugging until alt-swing bugs are fixed, too. It’s hard right now to know if you’ve screwed up (and how) when it’s possible that the game just animated the wrong thing. We can’t really test balance and consistency on the game until we know what we’re seeing.

    This.



  • @BB:

    So is this a thread about face hugging, or fine tuning lag compensation?

    Lag really isn’t as involved as you think it is. A lot of it is coming down to the tracers and “parry boxes”



  • @BB:

    So is this a thread about face hugging, or fine tuning lag compensation?

    @SlyGoat:

    UE3 uses very accurate client side movement prediction rather than lag compensation. Essentially rather than saying “Well even though the player was over there, the other guy thought he was here, so we’ll count that as a hit” the game attempts to actually sync up locations for all players on the server, so you won’t be getting hit after you’ve moved out of range of an attack just because you were still in range on the attacker’s screen.

    Lag compensation works okay for shooters, but it’s pretty awful for melee compared to prediction. You can download Age of Chivalry, which is on the Source engine and thus uses Source’s lag compensation, and see for yourself how bad it makes things. Or you can just recall all the times you’ve been killed in games like TF2 or Counter-strike after you ducked behind cover because to the other guy you were still standing out in the open, and then imagine that happens every time you move out of range of someone’s weapon in Chivalry.



  • it still can’t be perfectly accurate
    and I know it’s not

    I’ve cited this story before:
    I purposely whif a stab on an enemy, coming around for a combo slash to their side, killing them. For them they had actually blocked the stab, and put me into idle mode, the combo slash hitting them came as a complete surprise.

    The game trusts the attacker more than the defender
    lag compensation may not be terrible like in TF2, but it’s still there, and until someone is actually able to determine why some hits get through what should be blocks, I’m going to believe this



  • @BB:

    it still can’t be perfectly accurate
    and I know it’s not

    I’ve cited this story before:
    I purposely whif a stab on an enemy, coming around for a combo slash to their side, killing them. For them they had actually blocked the stab, and put me into idle mode, the combo slash hitting them came as a complete surprise.

    The game trusts the attacker more than the defender
    lag compensation may not be terrible like in TF2, but it’s still there, and until someone is actually able to determine why some hits get through what should be blocks, I’m going to believe this

    This.

    I fucking hate this. Every time where you know you block an attack, but it whiffs the opponents swing and if they follow into a combo then they’ll hit you because if its a fast combo weapon like the SoW then it will hit you before you can return to idle and finish your whiffed parry animation.



  • @Martin:

    I think the problem with Face hugging is that those with higher FOVs aren’t affected as much as those with lower FOVs. The player in front of you appears further back, so it becomes easier to parry. When the player covers up the entirety of your screen on default or less FOV, you have to turn further and faster to get everything in your view. People that use 120 or so FOV will therefore obviously say there’s less of an issue with face hugging, because they can see more of the model and weapon at all times. All I’m saying is, there are people with completely different FOVs discussing a topic which affects you differently, one situation for one person looks completely different to another person. There is no universal right or wrong here unless everyone sees things exactly the same way.

    That’s actually pretty interesting…
    Anyway, when I facehug there are definitely moments I notice I should have been blocked but I wasn’t, but that may be crappy turning animations (like the archers killing you while aiming somewhere completely else).



  • 1st: reduce damage done by the handles of weapons. when you are hitting someone that is standing next to you with a piece of wood or a metal handle, you aren’t doing as much as the blade would at the end of said handle. this one will be a bit hard to implement though.

    2nd: make the block bigger when player models collide. so say 1 player model is inside another, make blocking the attack easier. it is almost impossible to block an attack like this when they are inside you.

    3rd: make kicking extremely fast. as in as fast as a punch is. this will give shields the nerf they need as well.

    4th: think about allowing combing with kicks. this will add another level of depth to the game hopefully.



  • Why not just increase collision for each model so you can’t clip into each other?



  • @manic:

    Why not just increase collision for each model so you can’t clip into each other?

    And make daggers literally useless.



  • @gregcau:

    So perfectly deserving of a face hugger with bad breath

    Damn you are your picture of a bouncing physically fit woman XD It is very distracting while trying to read.

    Any way back to the topic at hand. I would like a shove attack that could be used to push people back.

    One thing I would really want them to do. Take away the small amount of damage kicking does. I hate it. I’ll be fighting and almost dead and then all of the sudden he kicks me and I’m dead. No way to block it, no way to stop it, just dead. I use a Maul so I get pretty close to land an overhead (almost never face hug. Doesn’t work with the Maul :P) so when I go in he kicks then poof dead on the floor. The they set to desecrating my body and shouting taunts (made by some very talented voice actors :P) and I end up the laughing stock of the lobby.



  • @BB:

    yup, Sly was said a couple things about it
    fast kick, lookdown overhand changes, and feint nerf are all things that should be coming in the next patch

    oh and yes 1 handed weapon fix

    Great news.



  • Check out my post here for my suggestion for facehugging and related tactics.



  • Now that parrying is much better I no longer find face hugging so much an issue.

    Sure those in your face MAA’s you have to turn almost 90 degress to parry but its not that bad. One parry and they are dead.



  • This shit is why im getting out of this broken game. Every time its either getting nailed from half the map away by a frigging archer or a damn face hugger. No skill just repeated shots to the head. Bend over and shove a mace up the anus.



  • I think face-hugging is most idiotically balanced with long weapons like bardiches and big swords.

    Quite how exactly a 6 foot long pole can be swung from a distance of 2 inches away and decapitate me I really don’t know, but it’s really, really dumb. Is it like Bruce Lee’s 3 inch punch or something? -.-

    MAAs getting in my face and overwhelming me with a small club or dagger is fine IMO, that’s how the class is skilfully played (combined with parries and dodging). It makes realistic sense too, if you got in close to someone with a dagger you’re in exactly the right space to use it effectively.

    It just pisses me off when a Knight with a bloody massive two handed sword or a VG with an 8 foot long pike runs right into me, tries to hump my legs at a distance of two centimetres away, and then somehow his stabbing attacks do massive damage even though he doesn’t have the space to even bring the weapon back.

    Run right up to a metal wall in real life. Pretend this is your enemy. Try to put a dent in that wall with a seven-foot long spear without moving away to thrust. Also pretend the wall is trying to kill you.

    Doesn’t work, does it? -.-



  • Agree with herman.



  • Agree^^

    Even funnier is that many times it’s VGs and Knights with 2handers that are complaining about facehugging.



  • Make the shield bash animation similar to the one javelin shield got, make it not being able to be flinch and the ability to stop a hit after windup! make that shield bash cover a good angle

    another idea would be that shield bash make a guy without a shield stagger while kick make a shield holder stagger

    or

    make 2 distinct shield bash, the one I told u about and the one already in place!


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