Range on the Zwei



  • So I’ve been the victim of a LOT of zwei deaths in the past to certain players. I recently decided to give it a whirl, and found that I immediately got 100 times better at the game. This shows to me that there is something about the zwei which makes it more powerful then the other weapons.

    After a little thought, I think I narrowed this down to the reach on the blade. The reach seems to extend beyond the actual model’s length. I have often seen players step out of the way of my blade, only to die from being nicked by it. I have also been the victim of doing so in the past myself.

    As such, I’ve come to the conclusion that the zwei’s reach is a tad to long for the blades model.

    Thoughts?



  • It’s not especially the model, people just think they are out of range then don’t parry and get punished.



  • @Asmon:

    It’s not especially the model, people just think they are out of range then don’t parry and get punished.

    Exactly this. It’s like the warhammer, it has an incredibly deceptive range and so people don’t parry it and instead try to run forward and go for a counter.



  • Interesting, I have never encountered this issue with other weapons than the aforementioned warhammer, some of the maces and maybe the Dane axe overhead.



  • Long release time weapons will do that. The window of opportunity for damage is the release time, so your blade remains able to do full damage for as long as the release time is. It doesn’t even have to be moving, it just needs to touch the enemy in that window. This leads to deceptive ranges because it seems like a swing is done and it’s actually still able to do damage.

    It could be changed if they wanted to, and it might be in the balance patch, but overall you just need to get used to the timing of weapons. Zwei isn’t a very common weapon, so fighting someone who knows its range and timings is rare, further exacerbating the issue if the wielder can drag the blade well.



  • @Daiyuki:

    Long release time weapons will do that. The window of opportunity for damage is the release time, so your blade remains able to do full damage for as long as the release time is. It doesn’t even have to be moving, it just needs to touch the enemy in that window. This leads to deceptive ranges because it seems like a swing is done and it’s actually still able to do damage.

    It could be changed if they wanted to, and it might be in the balance patch, but overall you just need to get used to the timing of weapons. Zwei isn’t a very common weapon, so fighting someone who knows its range and timings is rare, further exacerbating the issue if the wielder can drag the blade well.

    The drag is how I manage to hold off 4 or 5 enemies alone most times. Zwei can do a 360 drag thats devastating.



  • @RavenDice:

    @Daiyuki:

    Long release time weapons will do that. The window of opportunity for damage is the release time, so your blade remains able to do full damage for as long as the release time is. It doesn’t even have to be moving, it just needs to touch the enemy in that window. This leads to deceptive ranges because it seems like a swing is done and it’s actually still able to do damage.

    It could be changed if they wanted to, and it might be in the balance patch, but overall you just need to get used to the timing of weapons. Zwei isn’t a very common weapon, so fighting someone who knows its range and timings is rare, further exacerbating the issue if the wielder can drag the blade well.

    The drag is how I manage to hold off 4 or 5 enemies alone most times. Zwei can do a 360 drag thats devastating.

    Drag can also be used to devastating effect against single targets too, once you know when to drag your swings out longer, but still connect. This is what he was reffering too, although its great against groups too, just have to watch for teammates. I dont really swing much except in duels or ffa.



  • I wouldn’t mind seeing a .05 or so speed reduction on the overhand, just enough so it’s no longer the only move zwei users hit with

    Other than that range is fine



  • Maybe the zwei just might be the weapon of your choice? so much dumbness in this thread….



  • @BB:

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a .05 or so speed reduction on the overhand, just enough so it’s no longer the only move zwei users hit with

    Other than that range is fine

    So wait… you want zwei users to have 0 moves they can hit with?



  • @dudeface:

    @BB:

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a .05 or so speed reduction on the overhand, just enough so it’s no longer the only move zwei users hit with

    Other than that range is fine

    So wait… you want zwei users to have 0 moves they can hit with?

    Are you trying to imply that vans can’t hit with the slash or stab?

    Pls dont



  • @BB:

    @dudeface:

    @BB:

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a .05 or so speed reduction on the overhand, just enough so it’s no longer the only move zwei users hit with

    Other than that range is fine

    So wait… you want zwei users to have 0 moves they can hit with?

    Are you trying to imply that vans can’t hit with the slash or stab?

    Pls dont

    Zwei should use overhead because it’s not really slower than other attacks and deals 115 damage o.0 Has nothing to do with speed, though of course it’s easy to look down. It has the same problem as polearms with lookdowns in that the blade is still up high and you’re essentially being punched by the hilt, but you get full damage immediately.



  • @Daiyuki:

    Zwei should use overhead because it’s not really slower than other attacks and deals 115 damage o.0 Has nothing to do with speed, though of course it’s easy to look down. It has the same problem as polearms with lookdowns in that the blade is still up high and you’re essentially being punched by the hilt, but you get full damage immediately.

    This does not occur nearly as bad as with polearms. Polearms the butt of the weapon sticks way farther out due to hand position than with swords. Also, @BB, I honestly would say That besides against MAA since overhead is the only 1htk on them, I use all 3 attacks equally when I play zwei.



  • @BB:

    I wouldn’t mind seeing a .05 or so speed reduction on the overhand, just enough so it’s no longer the only move zwei users hit with

    You are right that overhead (not overhand ffs, learn it, people!) is pretty much dominant Zweihänder attack. As the sword is one of my favourite weapons, I can tell you why:

    1. It oneshots archers, and with some luck potentially even MaA. It would be stupid not to take advantage of the main feature of this weapon.

    2. Even though the swings don’t do quite as much damage, they are still pretty brutal. As vanguard is designed as a support class, you are very often near your teammates and hitting them with Zweihänder will hurt them badly.

    3. I guess that more experienced vanguards tend to disfavour swings entirely because it’s the primary LMB attack and considering how the vanguard charge is currently bugged and useless, it’s quite dangerous to swing because any time you may go kamikaze (and damage friendlies while at it).

    So the remaining attack is stab which is not really overwhelming with this weapon.



  • Not implying that the other swings are useless. I favour the overhead for the same reasons as above: 1hits, and less risk of collateral damage to nearby teammates. On the other hand, the wonderfully wide radius of the horizontal swing is great for making space when you’re on your own and outnumbered.

    Don’t really think the overhead is particularly OP. It’s a big slow weapon with many associated disadvantages.



  • Very, very, nasty weapon. 8-)

    And I love it.


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