Pike/Heavy Spear and Shield?



  • So I know the archer has javelins and a shield but they are honestly only good when thrown. I love the archer and heavy javelins but the thrust is soooooooooooo slow…. It has the same speed as the reload time it takes to replace a javelin which is also incredibly slow.

    So my idea is to have a pike or heavy spear and shield class. One where you can’t throw it but has faster moves like thrust and shield smite, etc. Think of how the Spartans fought in the phalanx. This idea progressed into the late middle ages.

    “Because of the extreme stopping power of a thrusting spear, it quickly became a popular weapon of footmen in the Late Middle Ages. These eventually led to the rise of the longest type of spears ever, the pike. This adaptation of the cavalry lance to infantry use was largely tasked with stopping lance-armed cavalry charges. During the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, these weapons, both mounted and unmounted, were so effective that lancers and pike men not only became a staple of every Western army, but also became highly sought-after mercenaries.” - Wiki.

    The spear and shield combination has been around for thousands of years dating back to the Egyptians, used throughout the Hellenistic period 323BC (Greek/Macedonia) to about 120AD (Greco-Roman Empire), perfected by the Romans, and was a staple of the Zulu tribes of Africa. Many historians believe that the first weapon made by man was that of a spear and later augmented by the use of a shield.

    For these reasons I would love to see a class use a spear and shield effectively. Perhaps even the Knight as one of his weapon combos. A heavy spear complimented by an equally heavy tower shield clad in full steel platemail. This would be perfect for defending objectives such as the corpse cart, battering ram, or even defending against such attempts. Imagine a team filling a spear and shield wall to protect the King during the last fight objective. Archers could hide behind them and fire off rounds and waves of Vanguard smashed against the shields hoping to land a critical blow to the visor of their adversary. Does anyone else think as I on this matter?

    We could even have polar opposites. The archer with javelin and buckler shield and the knight with heavy spear/pike and tower shield. It would be great to see a very offensive player using a Vanguard with a Billhook verse a Knight with a Heavy Spear and Tower Shield. Does anyone else agree?

    Here are some pics. They were too big to post using image tags.

    http://alton.k12.mo.us/jr.sr.high/acade … 0spear.jpg
    http://www.1zoom.net/big2/69/223762-stranger.jpg
    http://calafiazulus.files.wordpress.com … iors-2.jpg
    http://image.shutterstock.com/display_p … 727435.jpg
    http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/6758 … 145118.jpg
    http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/8642 … 420418.jpg
    http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5051 … 233713.jpg
    http://tinknights.com/images/6ft-gold-hps-right.JPG
    http://www.ahrtp.com/MedievalWarfareOnL … tNaval.jpg
    http://geddon.org/images/b/bf/01_macedonian_phalanx.jpg



  • if you ask me it will be overpower unless it will be extremly slow (slower then the mual) and the character will be itself slower than the knight so it can have health like knight be slower but with longer and slower range weapons. another thing you want to make a 9 weapons that will act the same? maybe one type of the weapon tree will be poles and shields there are 2 other weapons trees you need to think



  • Bro I made a suggestion not an overhaul. It can be added to the other content of a class just like the free DLC patch is. (Flails, QS, Pole Hammer, Sling.)



  • well i kinda support the idea. but pikes and lances are both 2handed. which means that you can only use shields for your arm not the hand (like a targe). there are also onehanded spears which you can do everything with em like the boarspear.



  • Pikes (the really long kind of spear) are kind of only useful in formation, a single soldier is fucked on the battlefield if he misses his first thrust on a soldier with a more effective weapon like a sword.

    But other than that, yeah, I’ve been wondering why there’s not spear and shield in Chivalry. Yeah, I know we have a spear-throwing archer that can use that, but it’s not the same thing. Spear and shiled was a very very common combination throughout the whole history. Spears are cheap and they are deadly. They are good at keeping people at a distance. We do have a spear with the vanguard, but he can’t use shields so he’s really just using them as short pikes. It’s a shame. I don’t know if I want a new class for it either, just the possibility to use it as another class than Archer.

    Spear and shield is really cool, man…



  • Too big to post using image tags? you mean ![](tags? You can use [image] tags on (maybe) any picture and it will make it small enough. Like this:

    [image][color][/color]http://alton.k12.mo.us/jr.sr.high/academics/Troy with Shield and spear.jpg [color][/color] [/image]
    [size](without the red underscores)[/size]

    It will look like this:
    [image:qnkx09fe]http://alton.k12.mo.us/jr.sr.high/academics/Troy with Shield and spear.jpg[/image:qnkx09fe]

    But anyways, i like your Idea. i think the VG should have a short[i]er[/i] spear that can be equipped with two hands or one hand, with a shield in the other. kinda like the Knight’s bastard swords.)



  • @adamcel6:

    But anyways, i like your Idea. i think the VG should have a short_er_ spear that can be equipped with two hands or one hand, with a shield in the other. kinda like the Knight’s bastard swords.

    Yeah, I think so too, but the unique thing with Vanguard is that he only uses two-handed weapons (not counting secondaries) and can’t use a shield. So then all of a sudden, he can use a shield with just one weapon?

    I think, maybe, that his tertiary slot could also hold a shield. All his main weapons are two-handed but his secondaries could be used with a shield. So make a shorter spear as a new secondary. He’d sacrifice his throwing weapons for a shield. It does make him feel like a less armored knight, though… I dunno. Of course he should still be able to do his special charge ability while holding a shield.



  • I think it would be cool. Plus for the off hand you can use a shield bash (smite) if you will. Only longer than a javelin and possibly quicker due to the fact the javelins are horribly slow and have no real reach. Plus when you miss a thrust with the javelin the recovery time is SO slow.



  • A proper shield and spear user is definitely needed in Chivalry. What class would it fit in is always the problem.

    I think there should be a fourth class that sits between Man At Arms and Vanguard and uses shield and spear, javelin and perhaps pike. I agree that without working in formation a pikeman is useless but still it would be interesting to see how even 2 or 3 pikemen working together would work.

    Yes this means taking javelin away from Archer and making it a true mixed class like it was in AoC, however mix it up with some other non-ranged weapons.



  • On a historic aspect, phalanx is a bad example : apart from the first rank, the vast majority of macedonian/greek soldiers used the great spear too handed (no shield). You can say that when the phalanx has been defeated in Cynoscephales, and disappeared, the superiority of gladius(broadsword)+tower shield became obvious.
    Long spears are only useful in a dense group of synchronyzed people, on flat ground, in one direction (yeah baby).

    I am not sure of its efficience in a game which does not need another useless underplayed weapon. Mounted knights used it with speed advantage. Sprinting will not be enough unfortunately. To top it all, there are enough clumsy things with the spear design at this moment (more of a long long sword in the way damages are done), and there are enough players crying around for comboing spear without adding more problems



  • A vanguard wih a shield?

    That would be unbalanced. The archers couldn’t hit them. That’s the vanguards weakness. They need a weakness.



  • @lemonater47:

    A vanguard wih a shield?

    That would be unbalanced. The archers couldn’t hit them. That’s the vanguards weakness. They need a weakness.

    Vanguards advantage is their big ass weapons they can wield. If there was the option of a shield, it should of course only be available with the Vanguards secondary weapons + he loses his throwing weapons. So yeah, add a spear to his secondaries so that he can use spear and shield (or hand axe and shield, or whatever secondaries a Vanguard has. I don’t play as one too often.) And it’s not like he gets a tower shield or anything! A heater or a kite, I’d say. Could be pretty cool. It’s not like he’d become a less armored knight, because the knight can use two-handed swords with shields, and it’s not like he’d become a better MAA because he can’t dodge and is still cooler looking (and I don’t really see MAA’s with shields that often anyways.)





  • Thanks for the input guys. I still think another class between Vanguard and MAA or Vanguard and Knight would be appropriate. Plenty of game mods can use a spear wall or some sort of formation. For instance, on killing the King we always wall the king in with tower shields on knights and lets the timer run out while archers pick off the van guards. Works wonders. This could be implemented with a long spear or another fashion. Much like the armored sergeants. A spear and a kite shield would work great. Or perhaps add a longer ranged weapon to the knights fourth weapon slot considering the flail is completely useless. At las… it seems all the DLC weapons are useless.

    Refer to the picture on the first page.



  • Medival pikemen were losing the shield and it got replaced by heavier armour.

    And web the halberd came along pikes starting dying out or becoming a lot shorter. As a groups of halberd users could absolutely destroy a pike wall formation. A halberd was designed to cut the pointy end off the pike. And then they had the advantage and cal avert could smash into them easily.



  • @lemonater47:

    Medival pikemen were losing the shield and it got replaced by heavier armour.

    And web the halberd came along pikes starting dying out or becoming a lot shorter. As a groups of halberd users could absolutely destroy a pike wall formation. A halberd was designed to cut the pointy end off the pike. And then they had the advantage and cal avert could smash into them easily.

    Yeah, but this game isn’t set in an exact time in history, at least not when it comes to weapon and armour improvements (think I’ve heard it’s set in 1266, though) Chivalry has everything from early medieval period, to high, to late. The Zweihänder doesn’t belong in 1266, for example. So I think it could be feasible with spear and shield, even if that later developed to pikes without shields and later to halberds. Anyways, these weapons work in formation, but no one plays in formation in Chivalry… except Ninja Sushi’s example of protecting the King with a tower shield wall.

    @ Ninja Sushi, yeah, an “Armored Sergeant” class could be cool. IIRC, I’ve seen art of Chivalry before where it had like six classes to choose between. They narrowed it down to these four we have now, so I doubt they are gonna add one class back in.



  • @lemonater47:

    Medival pikemen were losing the shield and it got replaced by heavier armour.

    And web the halberd came along pikes starting dying out or becoming a lot shorter. As a groups of halberd users could absolutely destroy a pike wall formation. A halberd was designed to cut the pointy end off the pike. And then they had the advantage and cal avert could smash into them easily.

    That’s not exactly true. Halberds and pikes were used together for about 100 years and the halberd certainly did not cause the pike to die out.

    It was two handed swords that were used to cut the end off pikes, not halberds.



  • It’s a mindless game of slaughter guys. Let’s make it more fun not historically accurate. If I wanted historical accuracy I’d play the History Channel games.



  • vanguard with onehanded swords looks stupidly epic. wonder why they took it out….



  • If they add this, they need to make polearms and spears do minimal damage if hitting with the wooden shaft. Or being unable to hit if the enemy is too close.


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