Combat Mechanics Are Great



  • Firstly I cannot stand the amount of rage, needs nerf, I am bad because of…,threads on this forum. This threads sole purpose is to let everyone know how much I love the mechanics of this game. If the mechanics were really that bad most people wouldn’t be playing let alone posting on this forum.

    These days games like Chivalry are hard to come by because of their learning curve. Easy to play, difficult to master. I have been playing since release and still get the same satisfaction in combat as I did at the beginning. WHY? Because you have to THINK in this game! People are becoming so linear that they believe the outcome is determined because that guy has norse sword and kite shield, or he face hugs etc.

    I have pumped a fair bit of time into this game and have around 40 hours in duel mode. (1211 / 157, win, loss),

    Fun Example

    I joined a duel server the other day and came across a player who was using the poleaxe and raged hard about the game after I beat him with holy water / kiteshield. He was going off saying “Face hugging, feint spamming is exploiting, this game is so imbalanced”. Yet he would go in with the same strategy every time. I watched him duel before I duelled him, and he would run in sprint in throwing 2 or 3 feints (hypocrite much) before performing an overhead whenever he was outside the range of both player’s weapons. So I used this to my advantage by being aggressive with a stab (achievable with one of the smallest weapons in the game) and ensuring that my stab would have to be blocked. Almost every time I caught him mid feint.

    Facehugging

    Is powerful and defiantly give the play a better advantage in duels compared to other strategies. As the defender has to be really quick and know the players attack/feint patterns or have a shield. I have long duels with good players, often greater than 1 minute and we are both up in each other’s face. Chivalry is so freaking awesome you have to actually move your parry or block in the direction of the blow, not just block. If you are a 2 hander you aim is to keep distance at all costs! I have played many 2 hand main players who are great at this, by making sure the face hugger has to block an attack whilst moving in every time, whilst the attacker moves out and queues another attack to meet the incoming opponent. Apart from the alt swing bug (which you can still adjust for), you can defend all attacks up close if you play perfectly.

    Feinting

    So great it makes the game forever unique and ensures any class or weapon can get an advantage. Most players I see complain about feinting have just started duelling higher ranked players. The problem is most players seem to think the game is based on one player attacking, and the other defending, then the role’s change after a block. This is WHY CHIV IS SO GOOD! Because it is a thinking man’s game! You have to actually learn what strategy your opponent uses, if he tends to feint you out a lot, you need to be more aggressive and throw attacks even if he is currently attacking. See how people react when you land a hit, do they parry straight away or not. If you are ever in doubt attack and make sure you follow with a combo.

    There is no doubt some classes and setups that have advantages over others, especially in particular game modes; however it is still possible to win with any class/setup.



  • Great post, I agree with everything you say here, except for the bypass release issue that can make a slow 2H strike before a maa norse sword etc, That just needs a little tweak. But reading the other players is definitely the greatest counter against all those other issues people constantly complain about.
    However, with such a steep learning curve it frustrates me so much to see a high ranked player punishing New players with these techniques and tormenting them over chat about how bad they are and that they should be kicked etc etc, that they end up giving up and we lose our player base.
    We need high ranked players to play more forgiving to the noobs, so they can learn some techniques. Doing this will stop a lot of complaining on the forums about how “unfair” the game is.



  • @Ghost173:

    If you are a 2 hander you aim is to keep distance at all costs! I have played many 2 hand main players who are great at this

    To be honest, the most I see from duelling 2 hand users like Knights with two handed weapons or Vanguards is they will parry an attack and then immediately sprint up against you (and keep sprinting) and stab you and drag the mouse enough so it registers as a sneaky stab. :?

    That being said, I still love the combat system in Chiv and I prefer this to any other sort of slasher game out there which I’ve played.



  • I wouldn’t mind having to parry/block in the direction of the incoming strike if I could actually see it coming. The animations need to be more smooth. Right now things look choppy so it’s easy to misread things.



  • With regards to feinting, I’m sorry but I won’t listen to a thing you say if you play with a fast 1h and shield. It’s basically the best possible thing you can have against feinting and it’s no surprise that you can’t see what other people are complaining about. And then there’s the fact that you use 1h feinting yourself…

    Try using a 2h for a while and try to beat feinters like that (you’ll also understand how annoyingly uncounterable 1h feinting is).



  • I love the fight mechanics of this game too and I think most people here do and that is why people are so vocal and passionate about the flaws that do exist. We see that this game is close to perfect so all the flaws become pressing issues.

    The feinting mechanic doesn’t stop this from being attacker-defender-attacker, distance and speed is what controls that flow. Feinting makes this game attacking->free hit. I hate feinting not because it lets better fighters beat you but because it lets worse fighters beat you. If I face a worse fighter in a duel who is a good feinter I have to bring out my shield and after that I will beat him easily but I’m still sad that I can’t do it with a two-hander.



  • @Ghost173:

    I joined a duel server the other day and came across a player who was using the poleaxe and raged hard about the game after I beat him with holy water / kiteshield. […] So I used this to my advantage by being aggressive with a stab

    @Ghost173:

    So I used this to my advantage by being aggressive with a stab

    @Ghost173:

    by being aggressive with a stab

    @Ghost173:

    a stab

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXaBundB2A



  • @Asmon:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXaBundB2A

    I’m dying
    I’m dying

    Oh my god

    That is the best



  • @Helgeran:

    I love the fight mechanics of this game too and I think most people here do and that is why people are so vocal and passionate about the flaws that do exist. We see that this game is close to perfect so all the flaws become pressing issues.

    Yes, this.

    I have had some gaming experience behind me but Chivalry is definitely one of the best games EVER for me. Although the people keep repeating here it is not a simulator, as a fencing practitioner I can tell you it is f***g bullshit. This game is a close to a melee weapons fighting simulator as the current technology allows and will allow for many years to come. Yes, there are some inaccuracies due to abstraction, some inaccuracies due to difficulty and some inaccuracies due to gameplay but all in all, it is pretty close.
    And then, there are some issues like the ghost swings, ethereal weapons and other spiritist bullshit that we just need to get rid off. The rest is balancing and gameplay, nothing more.


    *Although I think there may be actually one fundamental and insurmountable flaw in the system - the game forces you to parry at the last moment (which is very realistic, that’s how it works IRL) but the latency issues punish that harshly quite often. We just have to pray for faster internet and better servers.



  • I completely agree with the OP. I have been at this game since beta and I have never gotten tired of using a flanged mace and kite/tower shield. I have probably spent 400 of my 430 hours with just that weapon set up.I have never once gotten bored of the mechanics and probably wont for a long time.

    This game will only get better as TB expands and continues content releases.



  • I love this game and the game mechanics, exept one thing, those same accelerated and deccelerated hits, they make the game boring, fighting over and over people staring at the ground the whole fight, instant hits on block, most hit through shield just because they are crouched and look down…I really don’t see the point of giving every weapon a speed limit if u can break it in a simple mouse drag. As for feint, I really appreciate them but they need to be more fluid, I mean when someone slash + feint + alt slash…the hands and weapon looks like they teleport to the other side -_-



  • @jrmftw:

    However, with such a steep learning curve it frustrates me so much to see a high ranked player punishing New players with these techniques and tormenting them over chat about how bad they are and that they should be kicked etc etc, that they end up giving up and we lose our player base.

    Completely agree. I will often take time to give hints or tips to new players as you have to start somewhere. The kind that torment less experienced players are a stain on society.

    @Bloodhead:

    With regards to feinting, I’m sorry but I won’t listen to a thing you say if you play with a fast 1h and shield. It’s basically the best possible thing you can have against feinting and it’s no surprise that you can’t see what other people are complaining about. And then there’s the fact that you use 1h feinting yourself…

    Try using a 2h for a while and try to beat feinters like that (you’ll also understand how annoyingly uncounterable 1h feinting is).

    I will not deny the power of a 1h weapon in this game when in range. But I also play 2h lots and have loads of success, even against good kite shield knights. I also get beaten by good 2h players quite often.

    Tips for 2 handers vs 1h Shield

    If you are playing correctly, most of the time you should initiate the first attack because naturally your weapon is longer.

    So this is where you biggest advantage lies.

    Once you throw your attack the knight will have to block or take the hit. Most of the time I will not feint this attack as I may catch my opponent of guard, and or put him into pattern of blocking my first attack. A lot of the time he/she blocks and if I have timed my footwork correctly I will be able to move out of range of an attack, allowing me to queue up another.

    The other option is to feint out this first attack and continue to move closer to the knight, then follow up with a kick straight away. Most shield knights will be stunned and will give you a free overhead. If the shield knight lowers his shield immediately, you are against a good player and will have to trick him by maybe ensuring the first couple of attacks must be blocked.

    If you land a hit, make sure you continue to combo especially if your opponent also hits and decides to trade blows, making you victorious as you will do more damage. However this WILL NOT WORK FOR EVERYONE!!! It depends on your opponent and the strategy he/she uses, WHICH IS WHY THIS GAME IS SOOO GOOD!!



  • OP dudnt know about dem bugsploithax players, I guess.

    There is no actual defense against unblockable exploits/speedup tricks, etc pp, as the very essence of them is that they basically are indefensible.

    I’m glad some of that is being worked on accordingly, and I have since the latest patch actually begun parrying 2/3 of the “stare at your feet and thrust” sword attacks so many sploiters favour(TRIED to block them I always have, both in timing and aim; it just didn’t do much until recently again).

    You still can’t do jack about insta-hit thrusts, e.g…



  • @SomeDudeOnAForum:

    OP dudnt know about dem bugsploithax players, I guess.

    Nope. OP knows about them, OP uses them to his advantage, as majority of them are part of the game.

    Still have not come across an attack that was impossible to block after I have seen my opponent use it which then requires me to produce a slower or faster parry/block. Or I may need to look further right/left or crouch look up,



  • @Ghost173:

    Feinting

    So great it makes the game forever unique and ensures any class or weapon can get an advantage. Most players I see complain about feinting have just started duelling higher ranked players. The problem is most players seem to think the game is based on one player attacking, and the other defending, then the role’s change after a block. This is WHY CHIV IS SO GOOD! Because it is a thinking man’s game! You have to actually learn what strategy your opponent uses, if he tends to feint you out a lot, you need to be more aggressive and throw attacks even if he is currently attacking. See how people react when you land a hit, do they parry straight away or not. If you are ever in doubt attack and make sure you follow with a combo.

    My friend, that “strategy” is no strategy. Its absolute RNG what you are doing.
    You hope, by spamming, that your opponent feints. If he does, you were lucky (rng) and land a hit. If not, you were unlucky (rng) and he lands a hit.
    The ONLY class, which is not based on RNG (unless one of billion bugs happens this game has) is the maa. He can “counter” feints, simply by evading and thus “negating” their feint.
    No other class has a counter feint, but pure “im gonna spam my attack in the hope that he feints, in the name of godfather luck”
    Last milisec feints are absolutely not predictable. Again here we have the RNG, parry or attack. Its a 50%-50% mechanic.
    Do not forget that shield should negate feints, but 1 kick leaves your opponent 100% vulnerable.
    For all classes, except maa again. He simply evades and negates the kick stun.
    The idea of negating feints and kick stun is great, but idiotic that only 1 class is capable to do it, while leaving the others 100% vulnerable. Either give all classes some ways to counter kick or feint, or simply remove kick stun and make feint more predictable.
    Having to gamble in a “skill based” game is absolutely idiotic, as gambling has nothing to do with skill but only luck. I did over 5k duels now. And trust me, people arent predictable. Maybe this round you won be simply spaming, but next time he wins by throwing you off.
    Having a pure skill based combat would mean longer and more engaging skill battles. People would also respect you, instead of crying in the chat.



  • feinting is broken at moment.

    i dont see any problems in facehuging tho.

    But sprinting fight/feinting are both the bane of this game.



  • @janii:

    @Ghost173:

    Feinting

    So great it makes the game forever unique and ensures any class or weapon can get an advantage. Most players I see complain about feinting have just started duelling higher ranked players. The problem is most players seem to think the game is based on one player attacking, and the other defending, then the role’s change after a block. This is WHY CHIV IS SO GOOD! Because it is a thinking man’s game! You have to actually learn what strategy your opponent uses, if he tends to feint you out a lot, you need to be more aggressive and throw attacks even if he is currently attacking. See how people react when you land a hit, do they parry straight away or not. If you are ever in doubt attack and make sure you follow with a combo.

    My friend, that “strategy” is no strategy. Its absolute RNG what you are doing.

    So, would you duelling against a high-level knight with feint win half the time? I don’t think so. Not even if you played MAA.

    Stop kidding yourself into believing people who are better at the game are simply “lucky” or “exploiters.” Most of them aren’t.



  • @janii:

    Having to gamble in a “skill based” game is absolutely idiotic, as gambling has nothing to do with skill but only luck.

    I disagree 100%! Having gamble in a skillbased game makes it better!

    Lets take alook at other games to understand this.

    Chess has 0 gamble in it. What is the outcome? You need a comunity thats on the same skilllevel to have fun playing it. With random people you will soon have the unable to beat veterans and the unable to win noobs. If you dont believe me get good at this game, grab a chessboard and ask random people to play with you. As soon as they realize they dont stand a chance they will just stop playing.

    In most card- and boardgames on the other hand you have gamble involved, and thats why you can hook up with random people and have fun playing. Noobs will sometimes get a lucky win, while veterans will still get beaten now and then.

    So for me what makes this game great is the COMBINITION of skill, luck and psychology. Do we really want a game where you need leagues like starcraft to seperate players because the game will just suck if the difference in skill is to high? Id rather have a game where you cant be certain but one you can play with random players.

    Oh, and grats to the devs. This is by far the best melee game Ive ever played!



  • @Towe:

    @janii:

    Having to gamble in a “skill based” game is absolutely idiotic, as gambling has nothing to do with skill but only luck.

    I disagree 100%! Having gamble in a skillbased game makes it better!

    Lets take alook at other games to understand this.

    Chess has 0 gamble in it. What is the outcome? You need a comunity thats on the same skilllevel to have fun playing it. With random people you will soon have the unable to beat veterans and the unable to win noobs. If you dont believe me get good at this game, grab a chessboard and ask random people to play with you. As soon as they realize they dont stand a chance they will just stop playing.

    In most card- and boardgames on the other hand you have gamble involved, and thats why you can hook up with random people and have fun playing. Noobs will sometimes get a lucky win, while veterans will still get beaten now and then.

    So for me what makes this game great is the COMBINITION of skill, luck and psychology. Do we really want a game where you need leagues like starcraft to seperate players because the game will just suck if the difference in skill is to high? Id rather have a game where you cant be certain but one you can play with random players.

    Oh, and grats to the devs. This is by far the best melee game Ive ever played!

    I agree with this 100%. Having that small amount of luck keeps the majority of people playing. A lot of issues I have witnessed very recently, are from the really good, high ranked players getting beaten by a noob and complaining to they’re blue in the throat (and pining for the fjords) about this that and the other and how unfair it is to them. Oh no, that 30-0 KDR just got ruined! This game is so broken!
    Some players need to get some severe attitude changes in this game IMO, it is not all about a perfect KDR or duel win loss ratio all the time (ESPECIALLY in pub games), it is meant to be fun.

    Also with a game as dynamic as this, how can you make it almost purely skill based? I can only think of forcing 1 class with the same load out across the board in a duel mode… perhaps we should make it turn based play too? :P


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