Questions for the developers



  • I don’t know where to get general answers from the developers. It feels like they’re deaf. Their q/a videos are few and far between and touch on more obvious and casual subjects, or fixes to known bugs/exploits. I’m far more interested in the integrity of the balance of this game, as it shows a game developer’s true intent and experience. I’d prefer answers on some seemingly terrible decisions the developers have made such as changes to kick, changes to Javelineers, and untouched loadouts that have been discovered to be illogically powerful in certain areas.

    I have some questions about balance. Yes, balance is a grey area and determined by people’s opinions, some opinions being more worthless than others. I feel as an active member of one of the best clans, having a high rank, and a strong inclination towards skilled gameplay as opposed to luck/ratio (eg. poker), that my opinion is fair. I also haven’t mained a class properly since Javelineers were broken, so I view classes pretty evenly (except where Javelins are concerned).

    Questions:
    1: Why is there a dagger speed thrust on the Holy Water and Flanged Mace? Explanation: Norse Sword is annoying with it’s face-hugging, feint spamming, constantly trading at every turn gameplay style, but it’s far less annoying than maces that three shot knights, and have access to the fastest wind-up stab in the entire game. These stabs have contributed a great deal to corrupting the meta. This issue is strongly linked with parry’s weakness.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUFE0gXsWjU

    2: Why did you destroy kick’s viability in all other matters? Explanation: The fix to shields being OP (and they were) was to ruin kick and make it punish bad knights. This was whatever, neither here nor there, but kick’s other plentiful and awesome uses were utterly destroyed. Uses such as stopping someone running or back-pedaling, closing distance, punishing a feint user, stopping people swinging wildly in a group of your mates untouched, and quickly interrupting slower attacks/bow draws if you knew you could not make a trade, or you had time. It’s either because you thought it was too powerful, or you thought somehow that it was useless; so which is it? You can’t do anything I’ve stated anymore since you nerfed its speed.

    3: Why does the Warbow one shot Archers to the chest? Explanation: Warbows one shot other Archers, and maintain mobility and a high rate-of-fire compared to the crossbow for supporting melee. This introduces many annoying factors, such as Archer fights being less skilled, and Archer being the best counter to an Archer by far. If Archers couldn’t one shot with the Warbow, it would still be viable, so why can it.

    4: What’s happening with the Javelineer? Explanation: Alright, this one is completely bias. I’m not repeating my thread on the subject, but there are many issues, and I’m very butthurt you even touched Javelineers since release, since they were so fun and so perfect (perhaps thrown damage was too powerful, and I heard some animations had bugged appearances, but really? Wreck them with illogical fix after illogical fix?). Fast reload to block instantly and slow raise is, from a gameplay perspective, the fairest way to have that class’ balance, and the only way to differentiate its gameplay from the Warbow, which is by all accounts infinitely superior in every way (except Javelins have mobile cover).

    5: Why is parry so weak? Explanation: People’s perspective on this is skewed by thinking parry is a mechanic that shouldn’t be changed, or not thinking about it like that. Parry is a mechanic that is too easily exploited by a simple mechanic that requires no skill to use against parry. Why aim at feint when it’s parry that’s causing this imbalance, this imbalance that ruins the meta-game. Feint is a perfect mechanic, but it exploits another mechanic with no skill involved.

    6: Combo feint attack was OP, but is Combo feint parry? Explanation: This is more aimed towards your proposed fix in the beta thread. Combo feint attacking is still rampant with certain weapons that reward it better than others, so fix that by all means. But combo feint parrying was necessary to maintain balance for 2 handers. If you are to remove combo feint parrying, I suggest you remove dodge as well, since the meta will be completely shifting power to 1 handers with quick recoveries, and using dodge for very easy, free attacks.

    7: Are you fixing the Buckler, or is it working as intended? Explanation: The Buckler is the worst shield because it blinds the user when blocking, not sprinting, and in the Javelineer’s case, when jumping. It wouldn’t be OP if you fixed this, because the punishment is a severe stamina drain when blocking with it.

    I’m sure I have a lot more questions, I’ve played this game a lot. I’m not gonna say ‘I understand if you don’t answer’. No, I don’t understand if you don’t answer. No answers from moderators please, or people giving someone else’s opinions. We need a response from the actual person or people properly responsible for these decisions, some sort of insight into the balancing decisions behind this game. This is important in finding out what the future of this game is; is it bleak or bright, is it going to be like rock paper scissor/poker mind-games, is it going to reward practise and serious approaches with perks to casuals, or focus on casual gameplay with some mind toward overplayed setups.


  • Global Moderator

    I don’t know what game your playing but the only similarity is the archer warbow one shot to the chest. And that’s only with broadhead arrows.

    Broadhead for archers
    Bodkin for everyone else.

    And anyway, I’ve played you and your a good player. What’s to complain about



  • You say that the devs are deaf, yet you post this in general discussion rather than the Developer Q&A. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11564



  • @LoverBoy.USA:

    You say that the devs are deaf, yet you post this in general discussion rather than the Developer Q&A. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11564

    They don’t reply via posts on that thread, they only reply with videos that come out about every three years. There’s no guarantee I’ll be taken seriously, and video replies are less thought out and concise anyway.



  • @lemonater47:

    I don’t know what game your playing but the only similarity is the archer warbow one shot to the chest. And that’s only with broadhead arrows.

    Broadhead for archers
    Bodkin for everyone else.

    And anyway, I’ve played you and your a good player. What’s to complain about

    It’s always Broadheads. The threat of an enemy Archer is too great. Wouldn’t wanna get caught off gaurd personally.

    Thanks man. Yeah, there’s a bit of complaining thrown in there, but I prettied it up some, and cut some worse stuff out. Should be alright.



  • I don’t mind the javelineer except for the buckler taking most of the screen and lack of animation showing when the recovery from throwing the javelin is finished.

    Lately I am even able to duel pretty well with it. I use the short spear though due to faster recovery time.



  • @gregcau:

    I don’t mind the javelineer except for the buckler taking most of the screen and lack of animation showing when the recovery from throwing the javelin is finished.

    Lately I am even able to duel pretty well with it. I use the short spear though due to faster recovery time.

    I hate it when people say ‘I do well with this weapon’. I can win duels with fists, but I wouldn’t try vs. a high rank or a clanmate, because I know they know that blocking a single attack equals victory. Some weapons are better than others, but public games won’t teach you that.



  • @DeminRamst:

    @gregcau:

    I don’t mind the javelineer except for the buckler taking most of the screen and lack of animation showing when the recovery from throwing the javelin is finished.

    Lately I am even able to duel pretty well with it. I use the short spear though due to faster recovery time.

    I hate it when people say ‘I do well with this weapon’. I can win duels with fists, but I wouldn’t try vs. a high rank or a clanmate, because I know they know that blocking a single attack equals victory. Some weapons are better than others, but public games won’t teach you that.

    Nah I disagree, duelled plenty of high ranked clan people and blocking a single attack does not equal victory. Usually takes several passes of trading blocks and stabs.

    What it usually comes down to is whether you have managed to get a single shot into them before melee or not. Duel servers most people take shields so it is very hard. LTS however many do not and so it is a much more effective class in a team setting.

    Its a ranged class with all the advantages of that, so you can hardly expect melee to be the same. But archers are fast and the cudgel is a bitch since you can sprint kite and strike very quickly.


  • Global Moderator

    @gregcau:

    @DeminRamst:

    @gregcau:

    I don’t mind the javelineer except for the buckler taking most of the screen and lack of animation showing when the recovery from throwing the javelin is finished.

    Lately I am even able to duel pretty well with it. I use the short spear though due to faster recovery time.

    I hate it when people say ‘I do well with this weapon’. I can win duels with fists, but I wouldn’t try vs. a high rank or a clanmate, because I know they know that blocking a single attack equals victory. Some weapons are better than others, but public games won’t teach you that.

    Nah I disagree, duelled plenty of high ranked clan people and blocking a single attack does not equal victory. Usually takes several passes of trading blocks and stabs.

    What it usually comes down to is whether you have managed to get a single shot into them before melee or not. Duel servers most people take shields so it is very hard. LTS however many do not and so it is a much more effective class in a team setting.

    Its a ranged class with all the advantages of that, so you can hardly expect melee to be the same. But archers are fast and the cudgel is a bitch since you can sprint kite and strike very quickly.

    Kiting doesn’t work on me anymore. Its really funny when you see someone try. All you do is stand still. And they look silly swinging the air. And you can usually use their fail to your advantage. As they are either still swing or in recovery and then you have the advantage.



  • Feint is OP and parry is bugged. Feint was always OP but devs don’t care, they like RNG.



  • @theuprising:

    Feint is OP and parry is bugged. Feint was always OP but devs don’t care, they like RNG.

    feint isn’t op.



  • @gregcau:

    @DeminRamst:

    @gregcau:

    I don’t mind the javelineer except for the buckler taking most of the screen and lack of animation showing when the recovery from throwing the javelin is finished.

    Lately I am even able to duel pretty well with it. I use the short spear though due to faster recovery time.

    I hate it when people say ‘I do well with this weapon’. I can win duels with fists, but I wouldn’t try vs. a high rank or a clanmate, because I know they know that blocking a single attack equals victory. Some weapons are better than others, but public games won’t teach you that.

    Nah I disagree, duelled plenty of high ranked clan people and blocking a single attack does not equal victory. Usually takes several passes of trading blocks and stabs.

    What it usually comes down to is whether you have managed to get a single shot into them before melee or not. Duel servers most people take shields so it is very hard. LTS however many do not and so it is a much more effective class in a team setting.

    Its a ranged class with all the advantages of that, so you can hardly expect melee to be the same. But archers are fast and the cudgel is a bitch since you can sprint kite and strike very quickly.

    You can’t trade blocks with fists, your first paragraph doesn’t make sense. I don’t know what class you’re pitting against this Archer man. You can’t kite a MAA or a Vanguard if they’re onto you. Knights… yeah, was he using a Grandmace or something slow like that? I don’t know, your post is a bit off I reckon, too little information to take it seriously.



  • Day 2, no reply thus far.


  • Global Moderator

    @DeminRamst:

    Day 2, no reply thus far.

    They are out there, watching.

    And you can kite any class. Just have to be far away enough to start off with. Its easier when they are slower than you. The question is will they follow you.

    I’ve won many duels because my opponent tried to kite me. I either stood still or kept behind him just outta range. They wind up and swing and spin round at the same time. Perfect time for you to move in and stab them and combo off that. If you have a longer weapon than them. If you have a shorter weapon its a bit harder to do. I supposed you can be an MMA and dodge towards him but I’m really bad at that.

    And blocking an attack can grant you victory depending on what weapon you have and what they have. And how stupid they are.

    That’s what I like about this game, its largely skill based. And what I mean by that is there is a variety of play styles. That’s why almost every weapon has been called Over powered and under powered at the same time.



  • "1: Why is there a dagger speed thrust on the Holy Water and Flanged Mace? "

    • There are in my mind a lot of balance issues associated with 1h weapons.

    "2: Why did you destroy kick’s viability in all other matters? "

    • Kick is a hard thing to properly balance, i rarely see it used, its generally easier to turn or drag around shields, but once in a great while i see someone really good with it, and it gets them kills. Seems ok to me.

    “3: Why does the Warbow one shot Archers to the chest?”

    • Because it is the third tier bow, has a limited amount of ammo, you’re using the arrow type designed to fight light classes, and archers have little hp. This is perfectly natural, sensible even.

    “4: What’s happening with the Javelineer?”

    • You know, i almost never see a really good jav. Ive played it and it does seem like it has incredible potential to be OP, i just dont see people OP with it.

    “5: Why is parry so weak?”

    • Its not that parry is weak, its that this is a game balanced in favor of attacking. You have feinting, combos, swing delay, swing speedup, and alt swing. That is a lot of different techniques that can be used to counter parry. Feinting is getting nerfd (as it should be) which will help. There are also a bunch of weapons that come at you from crazy angles, but that just has to be learned and adapted to. Facehugging is also a problem but, eh. Idk what the solution is.
      –---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think the game is honestly pretty ok right now man. I mean, personally i think vanguard needs about 40 more hp, along with a bit of weapon tweaking, and I think knight secondaries should all be slower and or less damaging. Would be great if the accelerate/delay mechanic was removed somehow. But thats just my opinion, if they keep it as is i’ll still play it for a few more months.

    My real issue is, when the hell are modding tools being released so the community can continually develop new content? I mean, thats kind of the only reason i’m still here, i really want a ton of custom maps to play.



  • Bro TB don’t care, they were just in it for a quick buck, and with amazing PR apparently they made a killing off of an extremely buggy, badly balanced, terribly designed combat system (who the HELL would think feints, which make who gets hit basically luck, in a game where you die in 1-3 hits, is a good idea?) which is sporadically and usually badly patched. Hats off to them, they have some great business sense.



  • @JCash:

    "1: Why is there a dagger speed thrust on the Holy Water and Flanged Mace? "

    • There are in my mind a lot of balance issues associated with 1h weapons.

    "2: Why did you destroy kick’s viability in all other matters? "

    • Kick is a hard thing to properly balance, i rarely see it used, its generally easier to turn or drag around shields, but once in a great while i see someone really good with it, and it gets them kills. Seems ok to me.

    “3: Why does the Warbow one shot Archers to the chest?”

    • Because it is the third tier bow, has a limited amount of ammo, you’re using the arrow type designed to fight light classes, and archers have little hp. This is perfectly natural, sensible even.

    “4: What’s happening with the Javelineer?”

    • You know, i almost never see a really good jav. Ive played it and it does seem like it has incredible potential to be OP, i just dont see people OP with it.

    “5: Why is parry so weak?”

    • Its not that parry is weak, its that this is a game balanced in favor of attacking. You have feinting, combos, swing delay, swing speedup, and alt swing. That is a lot of different techniques that can be used to counter parry. Feinting is getting nerfd (as it should be) which will help. There are also a bunch of weapons that come at you from crazy angles, but that just has to be learned and adapted to. Facehugging is also a problem but, eh. Idk what the solution is.
      –---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think the game is honestly pretty ok right now man. I mean, personally i think vanguard needs about 40 more hp, along with a bit of weapon tweaking, and I think knight secondaries should all be slower and or less damaging. Would be great if the accelerate/delay mechanic was removed somehow. But thats just my opinion, if they keep it as is i’ll still play it for a few more months.

    My real issue is, when the hell are modding tools being released so the community can continually develop new content? I mean, thats kind of the only reason i’m still here, i really want a ton of custom maps to play.

    agree especially the last 2 segments.

    The abusing of mouse-speed is also pretty anoying. Put it all the way up and you can do 5 360 spins while swinging. It’s hilarious and pretty effective :D



  • @theuprising:

    Bro TB don’t care, they were just in it for a quick buck, and with amazing PR apparently they made a killing off of an extremely buggy, badly balanced, terribly designed combat system (who the HELL would think feints, which make who gets hit basically luck, in a game where you die in 1-3 hits, is a good idea?) which is sporadically and usually badly patched. Hats off to them, they have some great business sense.

    I gotta keep saying, feints aren’t OP. They exploit Parry’s design, parry’s very flawed design, a flawed design that is perfectly defeated by such a simplistic mechanic as feint. Fix parry. But yeah, well said.



  • @JCash

    You say: - Kick is a hard thing to properly balance, i rarely see it used, its generally easier to turn or drag around shields, but once in a great while i see someone really good with it, and it gets them kills. Seems ok to me.
    I say: You didn’t mention the old kick. It was actually amazing save for its bad vertical hit detection, and not stunning at certain timings. Also the new kick only gets kills in a duel. Team games already have many ways of getting around shields. It’s certainly a fool’s game to stun yourself for so long only for one, shitty free hit, leaving yourself open to projectiles and god only knows what else, unless you’re in a duel ; )

    You say: - Because it is the third tier bow, has a limited amount of ammo, you’re using the arrow type designed to fight light classes, and archers have little hp. This is perfectly natural, sensible even.
    I say: That’s not really from a gameplay perspective, I’m talking about balance, mate. One shotting to chest with a bow that fast only serves to devalue gameplay. Jav’s are shit, don’t get me started. Just read that thread I made on them, “stop jerking the javelin”.

    You say: Some shit about parrying.
    I say: Ok, I’ve lost my patience with your poorly thought out post. Soz.


  • Global Moderator

    @DeminRamst:

    @theuprising:

    Bro TB don’t care, they were just in it for a quick buck, and with amazing PR apparently they made a killing off of an extremely buggy, badly balanced, terribly designed combat system (who the HELL would think feints, which make who gets hit basically luck, in a game where you die in 1-3 hits, is a good idea?) which is sporadically and usually badly patched. Hats off to them, they have some great business sense.

    I gotta keep saying, feints aren’t OP. They exploit Parry’s design, parry’s very flawed design, a flawed design that is perfectly defeated by such a simplistic mechanic as feint. Fix parry. But yeah, well said.

    Feints might fool a skilled player once. But then skilled players can parry at the last second when feints are impossible.

    I dot are the problem with parry. Though I then lots to face thie attack. Like I do with the buckler shield. People saying turning I block is annoying but to me it all but adds to the gameplay.

    Javs are only crap when you are caught reloading in melee. As it takes so long to do so. You have to rely on dodging and hope they don’t do an overhead strike. Ducking under a horizontal stroke is always needed as you can’t block. Ducking does always work. For an over head or stab you have to jump in the hope that they hit your legs doing less damage.

    They should do the reload anitmation in two stages. The second stage can be interrupted by a block or scroll wheel attack. Or there could be an animation that leads on from it making it less clunky looking.

    Anyway as soon as you grab the next javilin you should be able to do something. It won’t be bypassing the reload as all those actions are slower than a reload in the first place.