The MAA frustration



  • I once dueled with a maa player and i was a vanguard using the claymore and this is perhaps one of the most enraging experience I have ever had facing with a master maa player.

    Here’s how one sequence of fight that went down and all the following happened as I will be describing and in no way am i exaggerating nor do I have the intention to try to put it in a way that is false just so I can win favor.

    FIGHT SEQUENCE
    He fwd dodge+stab, i took a big risk by ducking successfully and immediately swung back and he dodged back right away. I charged toward him and feinted, he commits himself to a block(got tricked, obviously), and naturally I did a real swing at him which of course he is stil able to dodge back. I quickly swung at him one more time once i closed on him. He blocked and got stunned cause he had ran outta stamina. But now, once you have no stamina and you blocked, you are “rewarded” with a little bit more stamina. Right after he stunned, I swung at him again and he was STILL able to ***king dodge away!

    I mean what is this b***shit?..How many mistakes can this MAA class make and how much risk and stamina must I burn just to get a chance to hit him? How many fricking dodges are we supposed to face in such a short span of time before we can hit this class and needless to say he can easily run toward you and do an overhead with the norse sword at 80+% speed after a back dodge which makes charging and feinting extremely dangerous.

    Why is it that this MAA class has no measure of consequence when they make mistakes and the other classes have to? Oh, thats cos they have low Health and cant afford to make mistakes ( lol, i always laugh at the can’t afford mistakes part)… Oh please, I rather they have a Vanguards health and have a 3sec cooldown dodge so the players can use this ability more wisely instead of always relying on it to get them out each time they commit themselves to something wrongly in such a SHORT period.

    Those crappy maa players(some high levels even) are probably also the ones saying all these health issues and that’s why this spammable dodge is justified. I can’t even be bothered with them, Im talking about those GOOD players that have mastered this class and hitting them is like trying to kill a housefly with a pencil.

    This 0.2sec cooldown dodge is just being exploited over and over again whether or not it is being used for an offensive purpose or a defensive one. Not to say if u stab/swing/overhead and immediately dodge, the dodge covers your windup and u exit the dodge already executing the attack. players like me using no shields have to click block each time i see/hear a fwd dodge coming cos i cant even see the windup.
    This is why those really experienced maa players constantly get scores like 10-0 in duel matches and experienced players of the other classes are having such a tough time dealing with these experienced players using this class.

    This class started out in the game already UNbalanced. In fact, It is far from balanced. it isn’t obvious before as we were all noobs then but having spent so much time fighting them and also getting players to experiment with them i have no doubt.

    Developers, for god’s sake please go and do some REAL time experimenting with this class and start looking at the more alarming issues. Let me give you guys an example, get an MAA to fwd dodge+stab and miss( make sure you stab then dodge so your windup is used in the dodge) and the other player using a knight/VG with a longsword/claymore, do a duck/lean back attack( usually a crouch and lean back overhead) immediately upon the maa’s execution. Get the MAA to try and dodge back out immediately once he misses and you tell me if he can get outta harm’s way or not.

    Well I have tried that with other players so many times, guess what? they could. Cmon man, 0.2sec cooldown? for real? By all means give them a major health and armor boost and lower the stamina cost, but seriously, DO some real adjustment to this dodge mechanic.



  • Sorry, but you clearly don’t know how to fight against them. Just get better.

    I’m a pretty damn good MAA, and my hardest matchup is against a vanguard who uses long range weapons (mainly because i use hatchet, they can exploit my short range). Especially against Zwei or Bardiche vanguards that can 1 shot me if I make one mistake.

    Just learn how to fight it before you make any quick judgements. Just because they can dodge during a stagger doesn’t make them invulnerable to punishment.



  • So, problem with your little story. You are saying that after one miss and three dodges he ran out of stamina, yet that would actually leave him around 50%, probably a little less if no regen. Therefore, 50% of your fight seems to have been left out and all you really managed to state was that the MAA was able to dodge forward and stab, dodge a slow counter attack, dodge a poor feint, then utilize the bug where you can dodge out of a dazed state.

    That is entirely normal MAA behavior and you need to practice vs MAA more. It’s not possible to dodge with an active parry and it requires precise timing to be able to chain dodge. Even without throwing any attacks of his own, an MAA dodging an aggressive enemy will run out of stamina within 10 seconds. If he is then pressured, he can’t regen stamina and therefore must block further attacks. When the dazed bug is fixed it will likely be auto-death for an MAA who lets himself get dazed because of how many weapons can one-shot headshot him. Most other weapons that have landed one hit beforehand will also one-shot him at that point.



  • Dodging without stamina is a bug though, can’t remember if that is fixed in Beta or going to be fixed with the next patch.



  • @Daiyuki:

    That is entirely normal MAA behavior and you need to practice vs MAA more. It’s not possible to dodge with an active parry and it requires precise timing to be able to chain dodge. Even without throwing any attacks of his own, an MAA dodging an aggressive enemy will run out of stamina within 10 seconds. If he is then pressured, he can’t regen stamina and therefore must block further attacks. When the dazed bug is fixed it will likely be auto-death for an MAA who lets himself get dazed because of how many weapons can one-shot headshot him. Most other weapons that have landed one hit beforehand will also one-shot him at that point.

    Basically, do what everyone else does and get hyper aggressive. This is the only way to play this game.



  • I charged toward him and feinted, he commits himself to a block(got tricked, obviously), and naturally I did a real swing at him which of course he is stil able to dodge back.

    This is either impossible or you simply didn’t feint+attack fast enough. You cannot dodge during the parry animation until you’ve returned to idle.



  • First off, sprint at them when you swing. This always gets me because I back dodge and don’t parry. Use latency to your advantage. I always have 78+ ping and this gets me with a ghost blade. Last off, don’t run at the MAA unless you are on offence. The MAA will expect this so he will dodge in and do a quick stab or overhead. Play with some tactic. Stab into a 180 then turn around and overhead the MAA. He will think you are running away when you are comboing.
    Good luck against the MAAs :)



  • Welcome to gaining free stamina after you ran your opponent out of stamina. If you weren’t using zweihander he could’ve taken a hit and backdodged again for a reset.

    You should be punished harder for running out of stamina, give them 10 or 15 stamina on block so they can block and swing back or just block and try to reset the situation.



  • Another point you could try:

    the MMA you are fighting is very agile and quick. Why would you use a very slow weapon vs speed and agility?? you might get lucky and land a 1 shot kill, maybe.

    Switch to your much faster secondary and play defensive until he burns most of his stamina, then switch to an aggressive style and punish him, use the environment. Get his back near something that will stuff his dodge up…



  • I didn’t read everything because… well… but I agree that a MAA player who properly utilizes dodge to the fullest of extent is VERY overpowered.



  • I just got off a 32 player TO server. Players were level 20-45 for the most part. One MAA just dominated the game with a 50-10 score. And there were some good players too. But this guy, he dodged perfectly, and did everything so fast you just couldn’t parry in time. He’d take on groups of players and kill them all. I’ve never seen such a perfect display of the full capabilities of a MAA before and it made me realize how overpowered they really are.

    I’m sure there are plenty of people that will say otherwise but it comes down to this. a guy in a leather vest runs around doing inhumanly fast dodges(that look ridiculous), taking out groups of full plated knights with a hatchet. Something’s wrong here.



  • @poseyjmac:

    Something’s wrong here.

    You’re goddamn right something is wrong here. Probably the baddies that are giving him such an easy time.



  • That guy just seems to have had an easy time decimating an easy team. One of my best K/Ds was around 46/2 or something as the other team was just a bunch or idiots, I am 100% Knight too. I don’t think there was anyone under level 15 either, just people that never properly learnt how to play the game.

    When I’m in the mood for it, I love fighting the pro MAAs, such a challenging and exhilarating fight. Get’s your blood pumping when you take them out after a massive fight.
    I find MAAs have a general pattern, then each of them branch off that general pattern into their own styles. You just have to try and adjust for their different styles.



  • @poseyjmac:

    I just got off a 32 player TO server. Players were level 20-45 for the most part. One MAA just dominated the game with a 50-10 score. And there were some good players too. But this guy, he dodged perfectly, and did everything so fast you just couldn’t parry in time. He’d take on groups of players and kill them all. I’ve never seen such a perfect display of the full capabilities of a MAA before and it made me realize how overpowered they really are.

    was his name BB? :3

    more on topic, MAA is a class you either need a fast weapon, or a really long weapon to get the upper hand in fights
    Knights with Norse and Zweihs are the worst things ever to me



  • @NaTe:

    When I’m in the mood for it, I love fighting the pro MAAs, such a challenging and exhilarating fight. Get’s your blood pumping when you take them out after a massive fight.
    I find MAAs have a general pattern, then each of them branch off that general pattern into their own styles. You just have to try and adjust for their different styles.

    I think most MAA I fight dance and dodge in to strike, which is a pain in the ass to fight. Most of the time I can’t be bothered to actually try against a fellow maa, so I just go for hit trades or flinches. In any case, I’m curious as to what you think the general pattern actually is and what the branches are.
    –----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Poseyjmac, today I was fooling around with daggers and I went 37-15 with maybe 5 Kills due to fire pots and the rest due to the hunting knife [on defense against a team of 10 with 4 players above level 30 while I was the only one above level 30 on my team], earlier, on attack, I went ~2-1 with thrusting dagger in two different maps, so I wouldn’t take what you see in pug scores too seriously.
    –-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BB why not Broadswords, which generally 3 shot you? Otherwise I pretty much agree.



  • @Reimus:

    I think most MAA I fight dance and dodge in to strike, which is a pain in the ass to fight. Most of the time I can’t be bothered to actually try against a fellow maa, so I just go for hit trades or flinches. In any case, I’m curious as to what you think the general pattern actually is and what the branches are.

    Yeah that’s pretty much what they do, it is a pain in the ass but it’s challenging. Hit trading with MAA’s has been a good tactic as well.

    Well I believe the general pattern is the baiting, trying to make you swing, dodging back, dodging back in to strike, or making a pre-emptive strike, then dodging back then back in. Some different branches are: Dodging back, dodging in, striking, while mid combo dodging to the left or right and striking again, usually getting around the parry, sort of delays the swing as well from the dodge.

    Another is them trying to dodge in a circle shape around you. I’ve also seen some that dodge in, don’t attack, wait for the flinch or dodge back out.
    There’s more methods but I can’t think of any others at the moment. I’ll go play some Chivalry soon and see if I can remember them :D



  • Let’s talk about removing forward dodge.

    When I play Maa I almost never dodge forward, sometimes only by accident.
    It isn’t even necessary to dodge into your opponents face, you can almost achive the same effect by sprinting towards them after they missed you. Actually you could never use dodge and still be able to avoid hits by using the Maa’s speed to your advantage. Sure, this only works best with 1vs1.

    Now, I don’t say remove dodge, dodge is fine, it’s just the forward dodge that’s “out of place”. I mean “dodge”, as the name says, avoiding something and not to charge at something.

    So, just give it a try. Next time you play Maa try not using forward dodge at all.



  • Ya really didn’t give much of a reason to remove forword dodge
    I don’t use it much either but it has it’s uses



  • @sorry_lad:

    Now, I don’t say remove dodge, dodge is fine, it’s just the forward dodge that’s “out of place”. I mean “dodge”, as the name says, avoiding something and not to charge at something.

    So, just give it a try. Next time you play Maa try not using forward dodge at all.

    I use forward dodge to actually dodge…



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @poseyjmac:

    Something’s wrong here.

    You’re goddamn right something is wrong here. Probably the baddies that are giving him such an easy time.

    One could argue it was an easy team. But someone could say that for doing well with any class. Good player, or bad team?

    The point is(and the player admitted)a knight could never have survived the kind of odds this MAA had. He’s too slow. I don’t care how good you are with a knight, you are too slow to not get hit by 2 competent players who treat you like the ultimate threat.

    The dodge in it’s current state is just too good, with too few penalties. I’m not sure what the developers were thinking to give a glitchy, superhuman move to the MAA class to keep it competitive, instead of addressing the balance issue in a more believable way. It’s a ridiculous move in an otherwise believable game. I’m also saying this as someone who has done extremely well with a MAA in the beginning, but switched to vanguard/knight for a more believable experience.


Log in to reply