Interupt windup phase? …. If you can reach it.



  • The opportunity to react to play that is read.
    I propose that one should have the opportunity to react to play that has been read. Meaning that if you have successfully read a play and can react to it in time then you should be able to counter it.

    The problem:
    At the moment windup can pass through anything and then upon release a hit is scored. This in and of itself isn’t actually a problem. The problem occurs when the situation is manipulated so that an easily readable attack bypasses normal means of defense.

    This problem occurs because ‘windup’ can bypass normal means of defense. I propose that shields, players, and weapons always have a hit box ‘ON’ so that if a weapon is in windup and hits a player, shield, or another weapon (be they in any state) that the attack is ‘made bad’ and the same recovery time is applied a if the attack had been parried.

    This would mean that if you windup and your windup phase hits some other player, weapon, or shield that your attack is ‘cancelled’. This is a good and correct because if you’re running to attack a target at your 12o’clock and your weapon hits something during its windup then your attack is ruined and you will have to windup again.

    This solution would also solve problems when a windup phase can pass through a shield (as if by magic) and then ‘release’ and do damage to the target behind the shield. Whether the shield is being held up to block or not is irrelevant IMO. If a weapon hits anything in its windup phase then the weapons momentum is broken and the resultant attack is ineffectual. This actually already occurs when a weapon hits walls that are in the path of the windup. As a result players have to account for this and use attacks accordingly that can successfully deal with the situation.



  • @giantyak:

    At the moment windup can pass through anything and then upon release a hit is scored.

    man you do not listen
    I told you in the other thread release does not pass through anything

    here’s some pics to show you where the release for slash starts
    http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/864 … E7A62B674/
    the sword is pulled back all the way, then release immediately starts when the weapon is swung forward
    the tracers show the path of the slash in release
    as you can see for the release to start inside of somebody they would have to be humping the back of your left leg

    and here’s where the lookdown overhand starts
    http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/86496 … 69D4A5714/

    and again as you can see, it does not start inside of anybody
    http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/864 … 51A84915B/

    you can go ahead and delete the thread now



  • Ok, so your opinion has be heard. i made this thread so that this subject could be openly discussed.



  • lol you gots ta be trollin me



  • Giant just make a video showing your case. TBH, I don’t know of non polearms doing this. So I’d like to be educated too.



  • @ChuckingIt:

    Giant just make a video showing your case. TBH, I don’t know of non polearms doing this. So I’d like to be educated too.

    they really don’t
    he was talking about this
    http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/864 … DB42E24DD/
    http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/864 … 6AD472A87/

    the black tracers overlapping the red are the butt of the weapon being swung

    it doesn’t bypass shields though, just hits instantly if the Van is hugging someone
    @NabsterHax:

    H2EJ0sR9osE

    Sorry for the fairly low quality. Still, I think it clearly shows that first contact made in facehug range does come from the pommel of the weapon.

    also
    @giantyak:

    This actually already occurs when a weapon hits walls that are in the path of the windup.

    that’s the release hitting the wall ya dumb butt



  • BB please do not take the liberty of speaking on my behalf. At no point have i ever mention anything about swords or even any particular attack. Except on one occasion to correct your oversight on polearms.

    I’m not going to go into my experiences with this issue as i have inflicted (accidentally) this situation on other people.

    Rather i want this discussion to be more about the windup phase and less about the end of windup approaching release and how it may or may not be manipulated.

    I’d rather this discussion be about windup: Visualise yourself winding up for a swing with your claymore and then me standing behind you and i grab your hand. In this instance your windup is ruined and you can not follow through with the release of your swing effectively.

    In this rudimentary example you can see how if your windup is interfered with then your attack follow through will also be negatively impacted upon.

    Now visualise a less obvious scenario: you’re running along with your claymore and go for a swing at a target dead head. as you windup your weapon bumps into your team mate along side of you. Your follow through will again be impacted upon.

    Again visualise this: your running along with your claymore and you want to get past your foe to attack him from behind. You windup as you pass him but catch your arm and weapon on his weapon(or shield it doesn’t mater in this case). Your follow through will be impacted upon negatively. You could drop your weapon anything could happen. It doesnt matter if your foe was block with a shield or parrying with a weapon or even if you bumped into his shoulder with yours. The fact is your windup is ruined.

    Now visualise this: Player A approaches player B. A turns 90degress left so that player B is at his 3o’clock and hes attempting to windup for a swing (shit is player A drunk or something?) and as he does so his windup touches player B. Player A’s windup is compromised, he’s facing the wrong way, his flank is open for attack.

    In the final scenario a bad attack play was made. It should be punished.



  • Now Mr BB in your case you’re saying that someone in windup has their weapon behind them. I’m saying that if said weapon is within the reach of my parry - if that weapon is close enough to me that i can hit it with a parry then IAM in a position to interfere with your attack.



  • @giantyak:

    Visualise yourself winding up for a swing with your claymore and then me standing behind you and i grab your hand.

    B-
    Baka, i- it’s not like I want you to grab my hand or anything!

    Baka giantyak-sama



  • But can you see how a windup would be interfered with from some other angle. Not necessarily your target in front of you?

    Often your target maybe adjacent you at your 9o’clock or your 3o’clock. That target could deliberately interfere with your windup or the follow through release just may not work because of timing and spacing.

    So with the bardiche i think you should be able to score a parry or block off the windup if you hit the butt of the bardiche when its in an overhead swing.

    Or if you look at the spear or brandistock the butt of the weapon is at the wielder’s 4o’clock and it can kill people on release if they are unlucky enough to be touching it at that point in time and space. You can parry that from release but if you are that close (humping the persons leg) you should be able to parry the windup also.



  • I like that you’re coming up with constructive criticism but this is a bad idea. IRL you would have much better situational awareness since the FOV IRL is much wider than a screen, you have better audio ques etc. But since you are infront of a screen, it is much MUCH more difficult to be as aware of your ever changing surroundings.

    Remember than walls-buildings-poles-terrain already block attacks, especially if you’re using a long weapon, so your idea is already in the game at SOME degree.



  • I skimmed over everything. But let me get this straight… you want the weapon to interfered with at all times?

    Wouldn’t that have the ridiculous affect on common cluster fuck brawls? In that chaotic pack… no one can swing their weapons because they will immediately collide with one of the many people surrounding them. So they just all stand there twitching and looking silly?

    I’m sorry if this is irrelevant and not accurate.



  • So face-hugging and parrying continuously will make you invincible.



  • I think this would nullify facehugging to a degree. the closer you are to your target the greater their ability to interfere. Parry can only be effective where it can reach the windup…so you’d have to be behind your target. And if your just going to spam parry they can either use foot work and use a quick attack or just kick. Your argument about parry is kind of dim mr hax. Does parrying constantly make your invincible now?

    So far as cluster fights they would be more interesting, but the main thing is you’d be wanting to stab or overhead as their is much less chance of your windup being made bad. This would help to reduce TK’s a little.

    But you can’t forget that the release is the dangerous part of the swing and is also the biggest part in terms of tracers (if you consider the animations). The tracer for windup could be made smaller if necessary. But the release phase will still be just as dangerous as it always is.

    But what this whole thing would achieve is to make people have to be more precise with accelerated attacks. Your timing would have to better and you’d be less likely to be rewarded with a hit if you’re just flailing about. There would also be a reward for people who can brawl well and know how to place them selves well. So if you are good at foot work and timing fights would be quicker.



  • @BB:

    @giantyak:

    Visualise yourself winding up for a swing with your claymore and then me standing behind you and i grab your hand.

    B-
    Baka, i- it’s not like I want you to grab my hand or anything!

    Baka giantyak-sama

    Hahaha, wtf. Too much anime man, come on. He makes a good point

    @NabsterHax:

    So face-hugging and parrying continuously will make you invincible.

    So, because someone’s windup would be out of your reach if you’re in front of them. I don’t think it would work for overheads or pokes however. It makes mechanical sense, but doesn’t fit with the combat mechanics because as you say, someone can either spam parry and win or just parry whenever you so much as twitch and thus always interrupt your attacks.

    However, I think it would be a good addition if there were good ways to create distance for everyone.



  • @Daiyuki:

    He makes a good point

    even if windup was blockable, you would have to hug the enemy to block them
    what part of that is a good point?



  • But to successfully parry a windup your weapon has to physically hit their windup weapon tracer. That’s not going to be easy to do if you’re directly in front of each other. It’d only start to become an issue where you’re adjacent each other and a parry (which is short) can actually touch a windup. So for it to work you’re going to have to be directly at someones side or behind them.

    The only times it’d work when your nose to nose is with the bardiche where its windup tracer gos slightly in front of the attacker where the butt of the weapon is.



  • @giantyak:

    But to successfully parry a windup your weapon has to physically hit their windup weapon tracer. That’s not going to be easy to do if you’re directly in front of each other. It’d only start to become an issue where you’re adjacent each other and a parry (which is short) can actually touch a windup. So for it to work you’re going to have to be directly at someones side or behind them.

    The only times it’d work when your nose to nose is with the bardiche where its windup tracer gos slightly in front of the attacker where the butt of the weapon is.

    Many weapons’ attacks in the game have animations that pass through the enemy player in windup when face-hugging. Stab attacks would be completely useless, as well as many overheads and alt-swings. This idea just isn’t well thought out.

    A better move would be to push back a player who is “hit” during the windup, but I still think this would be janky as hell.



  • But not all weapons would be affected. Take the dagger for instance. Or if i use it properly the javelin will also be unaffected.

    With some attacks you could turn the windup away from your target to protect the windup.

    So far as the continuity of the game goes this is what does happen if people aren’t manipulating the swings. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be able to manipulate swings, but the process should be better.

    @BB:

    @Daiyuki:

    He makes a good point

    even if windup was blockable, you would have to hug the enemy to block them
    what part of that is a good point?

    This is actually what my idea stemmed from. Combat at face hug range or when two players come very close together.


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