Should Being Blocked Pause Your Sprint?



  • There’s a hip new tactic gaining heat with all the happening Vans out there
    sprint around in a circle and slash

    So who else has experienced this tactic or uses it regularly as a Van?
    And if you do have experience with it what do you think about being blocked or parried pausing the sprint?

    Right now dancing is a very low risk tactic that doesn’t leave the player open very long, or at all if done right. It would be nice if being successfully blocked gave a small opening enemies could take advantage of

    I say “take advantage of” but it won’t be like the Van would be at more of a disadvantage than if he was fighting normally

    Again what do you think? Would it slow down the game too much? Or would it nerf a tactic that’s a bit too low risk?



  • Yeah I’ve seen it a few times. The guy will just break off from engagement and start running around in circles. It looks pretty dumb and it makes attacks a pain to block.

    I’ll go into the idea I suggested in the thread that got locked; it might help if they changed sprinting to work as a more situational thing and less of a thing that people try to keep going constantly. It’s pretty much mandatory for any high-level play to have toggle sprint enabled since you’re just asking to be a sitting duck without having it on and there’s pretty much zero disadvantage to using it with a lot of advantages. So what I propose is that they change sprinting to be less directly related to combat by adding a stamina cost to it and making it so you need to stop sprinting before you can attack. This way you can’t do the whole sprint around in circles thing while swinging and it makes it something you need to consider the risk versus reward for with the stamina cost.

    To balance it out the base movement speed across the board should be increased slightly. Right now if you’re not sprinting then you’re walking, which emphasizes how massive the advantage sprinting gives. So if they increased the speed from a walk to a jog or slow run then it would keep combat at a fast pace without resorting to having to constantly turn around to keep your sprint going. And it would allow for a lot more footwork in combat so it would overall be a lot more engaging being able to maintain a decent speed constantly while fighting.

    The main issue I see with these changes is what got mentioned in the last thread; shields. Not being able to attack while sprinting could make getting around shields somewhat harder, but there are quite a few alternative ways to get around a shield in the game, such as kicking, jumping attacks and alternate attacks.

    Oh yeah and about the question in the title. I don’t think simply causing being blocked to interrupt a sprint would be sufficient. It would be pretty simple to just break off from the fight and go back to sprinting around in a circle even after your sprint gets cancelled.



  • chase mechanic makes this much harder to pull off, but much easier in those ffas and ffa dueling servers. Also, knights are a tad bit slower than the vans to pull it off, which is why you see more vanguards doing it.

    TBH, vanguards need some edge to make them more worth playing over a knight, they aren’t powerful enough in competitive play. So i’d say don’t take it away from them.

    If this is how people want to deal with feints, too, let them. People complained about feinting, now the feinters might complain about this tactic, because more people are starting to catch on to how to deal with feinting.



  • 1- Its not JUST VANG its everyone! Sure it is region based, but EVERYONE is doing so and it is NOT JUST hit and run, its circle too, and that is were it is REALLY overpowered, hit and run is boring, circling “fighting” is super broken, and for some reason lag compensation mechanisms don’t work while you are sprinting making it SUPER hard to parry a sprinting attack. The same happens to attack a sprinting opponent tho. While you are sprinting it is SUPER HARD to parry, and i play with ping 36-40 usually.

    2 WAKE UP GUYS, VANGUARDS DOES NOT SPRINT FASTER THAN KNIGHTS, ACTUALLY KNIGHTS ARE FASTER, and YES you can test it by yourself, vanguard sprint are the slower in the game, just get a friend knight and make a race with him, you will see he taking distance.

    It reminds me when i firstly did a tread about how op feinting was (and still is) need to take a freaking month for you guys see the issue.

    What kind of low skill server do you guys play on? :(



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    chase mechanic makes this much harder to pull off, but much easier in those ffas and ffa dueling servers. Also, knights are a tad bit slower than the vans to pull it off, which is why you see more vanguards doing it.

    Wrong, the striker is already at movement and the defender (normally) would press sprint and take a long time to reach, but what happens right now is that EVERYONE keeps just running. But you can always put a bit of a distance and then turn around striking already and hit your chaser.

    TBH, vanguards need some edge to make them more worth playing over a knight, they aren’t powerful enough in competitive play. So i’d say don’t take it away from them.

    Complain with Thorn Burner that broke the parry… Dont try to solve mess with more mess.

    If this is how people want to deal with feints, too, let them. People complained about feinting, now the feinters might complain about this tactic, because more people are starting to catch on to how to deal with feinting.

    You dont see the point at all… The same kind of people that you call “feinters” i call “exploiters” and are exactly the same guys that abuse feint.

    Like i told in the servers were i play now it is EVERYONE sprinting non stop, otherwise you will just die to the ones sprinting. Know about the battle line? I dont, there is no such a thing anymore, its a big mess with everyone running around and if you take you finger out of shift for a instant you are done for.

    Well, see you guys in 2 weeks, untill then i will go to your server to disseminate the practice and show the world how “skilled” i am.



  • I think this tactic looks stupid, and is only moderately effective which makes it even more thoroughly stupid because it detracts from the fun (for other people who can’t actually find anyone to engage in a real fight).

    I think parrying should pause your sprint, but not affect your jog or anything. Since we can keep shift held down (or sprint toggle) properly now, it’s not very troublesome for the sprinter, but it does mitigate some of the ridiculousness of the tactic.

    Since the last patch I was playing on a different server because of internet problems, but I recently went back to one of the official servers and it was pretty shocking. Retarded vanguards sprinting everywhere LMB spamming their swords. Looked like a comedy of some kind. It really detracted from the overall gameplay because the idiot sprinters won’t even stop to complete objectives or anything.



  • From the most recent patch:
    @SlyGoat:

    -The game now remembers the sprint button being held down, putting you into sprint again if your sprint is stopped for some reason.

    This is likely why this tactic is more widespread now, much easier to perform. You’ll notice by just running in a small circle that now your character continues to run, whereas before, your character would stop running because he turned to sharply.

    I use it loads and to be honest it’s far too easy, the root problem I feel is that horizontal turning speed while winding up or attacking is capped at the same rate, whether you are sprinting or walking, this wasn’t so significant before the patch because turning too sharply while sprinting would stop your sprint and you’d be forced to face your opponent head on.

    I think that horizontal turning speed should be capped at a slightly lower rate while sprinting, particularly while winding up or swinging. I’m sure it’s possible to tweak this such that running during group fights is still viable, but instead of being something everyone does because it’s strictly better (in almost every case), it becomes an option with pros and cons.



  • @Josh:

    I think that horizontal turning speed should be capped at a slightly lower rate while sprinting, particularly while winding up or swinging. I’m sure it’s possible to tweak this such that running during group fights is still viable, but instead of being something everyone does because it’s strictly better (in almost every case), it becomes an option with pros and cons.

    That’s also what I have noticed, keep sprinting, don’t stop. It really needs some drawbacks.



  • Holding sprint will only re-start your sprint for you when something stops it, you’ll still lose your sprint speed. Sprint accelerates gradually, it doesn’t start at top speed.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Holding sprint will only re-start your sprint for you when something stops it, you’ll still lose your sprint speed. Sprint accelerates gradually, it doesn’t start at top speed.

    which is exactly what I’d like



  • I think it would be a good idea or at least I think we should give it a try on the beta client. The whole circle sprinting thing looks really silly.



  • @David:

    it might help if they changed sprinting to work as a more situational thing and less of a thing that people try to keep going constantly. It’s pretty much mandatory for any high-level play to have toggle sprint enabled since you’re just asking to be a sitting duck without having it on and there’s pretty much zero disadvantage to using it with a lot of advantages. So what I propose is that they change sprinting to be less directly related to combat by adding a stamina cost to it and making it so you need to stop sprinting before you can attack.

    +1 except the part that you need to stop sprinting before you attack. I honestly think this is the next major game mechanic they’ll tweak after they’re done with feinting.



  • Sprinting around an opponent like that is the best imitation of footwork this game can produce. And it’s effective at dealing with heavy feinters.

    I use it when the situation calls for it, like when I’m against a bardiche look down overhead van or a turtleshield knight.



  • sigh

    I said this was going to happen ages back when people wanted Sprint fixed and suggested an ‘always-on’.

    And then when it got patched and we discussed this 2 weeks ago. I said it was going to become comical and silly with everyone running around swinging swords like roadrunner.

    And now I’m back again.

    Here’s a selection of a few arguments and solutions I made, The last final conclusion and suggestion was also for “block” to stop Sprint. Although, I’d rather just get back the old Sprint and simply fix issues with the maps that were causing Sprint to switch off (if that was the case).

    …People no longer stand and fight face to face. Everyone is doing a road-runner and it looks comical. It IS comical. The new Sprint Toggle has removed some aspect of user-input skill/footwork/timing/execution and been given to the masses for free and made autonomous.

    It has also made walking redundant. There is now, no need to have a Walk Mechanic at all when we can be running.
    1. Move faster
    2. Get to battle quicker
    3. Be more agile
    4. Dodge and evade attacks whilst being in Sprint Mode.
    5. Extends range of weapons (not physically, but you can hit people from a further distance than you can by walking).
    If you want to heal? Stop your movement and strafe towards your destination - you’ll still keep Sprint Mode on.

    Conclusion/TL;DR
    1. Default = walk
    2. Activate/Hold-down Sprint = Sprint
    3. Blocked attacks/Hitting solid objects = Default
    4. Taking Damage = Default

    When it comes to balance and mechanic changes. Please try to be objective and also use… FORESIGHT. Think about the damn consequences to everything else.



  • @2maidens1chalice:

    Sprinting around an opponent like that is the best imitation of footwork this game can produce. And it’s effective at dealing with heavy feinters.

    I use it when the situation calls for it, like when I’m against a bardiche look down overhead van or a turtleshield knight.

    Second the footwork thing.

    Footwork is huge and I can’t agree to anything that limits it. I don’t feel like it is overpowered. As for risk BB, dancing is not low risk at all. Any time you’re not looking at the enemy is inherently risky. I’ve killed plenty of people who tried to dance. It’s not easy against an aggressive opponent.

    @g0dLyk:

    sigh

    I said this was going to happen ages back when people wanted Sprint fixed and suggested an ‘always-on’.

    And then when it got patched and we discussed this 2 weeks ago. I said it was going to become comical and silly with everyone running around swinging swords like roadrunner.

    And now I’m back again.

    Combat has not changed from this. What’s comical is how different everyone seems to think fighting is now. Are you playing the game? This isn’t happening at all. Like some light switch was turned on and now every player can magically dance like a pro. No. This simply isn’t happening.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Holding sprint will only re-start your sprint for you when something stops it, you’ll still lose your sprint speed. Sprint accelerates gradually, it doesn’t start at top speed.

    But in the exact moment you press shift you gain speed, maybe not full speed, but faster than walking (by a lot, i would guess double). And it is great for face hugging. Its great for hit and run and it is SUPER GREAT for run around the enemy and beat him to death.

    But to be honest i am killing a LOT by doing so and i am killing the guys that were killing me before i was a super pro that press shift (While they were already pressing) so i don’t care anymore. If you nerf sprint vanguard will be useless again, as it is since feint exploit becomes popular, archers become snipers and parries stopped working…

    :(



  • @bada:

    @2maidens1chalice:

    Sprinting around an opponent like that is the best imitation of footwork this game can produce. And it’s effective at dealing with heavy feinters.

    I use it when the situation calls for it, like when I’m against a bardiche look down overhead van or a turtleshield knight.

    Second the footwork thing.

    Footwork is huge and I can’t agree to anything that limits it. I don’t feel like it is overpowered. As for risk BB, dancing is not low risk at all. Any time you’re not looking at the enemy is inherently risky. I’ve killed plenty of people who tried to dance. It’s not easy against an aggressive opponent.

    @g0dLyk:

    sigh

    I said this was going to happen ages back when people wanted Sprint fixed and suggested an ‘always-on’.

    And then when it got patched and we discussed this 2 weeks ago. I said it was going to become comical and silly with everyone running around swinging swords like roadrunner.

    And now I’m back again.

    Combat has not changed from this. What’s comical is how different everyone seems to think fighting is now. Are you playing the game? This isn’t happening at all. Like some light switch was turned on and now every player can magically dance like a pro. No. This simply isn’t happening.

    Run is NOT foot work.

    Foot work is to measure distance and positioning while walking, and i can definitely do it pretty well without sprinting around, i can even go to people backs and kill then no problem if freaking parry works (sometimes it does sometimes it don’t lol)

    always on sprinting is the BANE of any real skilled footwork… i am almost doing a video with this thing just to show you non believer how stupid it is…



  • This strategy is indeed retarded. Yet it is easily counterable; just stop following the retard sprinter, stay out of range and watch him run out of stamina by slashing the thin air. Use the terrain and natural obstacles.



  • So, my 2 cents will say.

    Less people will complain about feints… more people will complain about this now?

    Then sometime in the future, people will complain about something else, until we have a game where you can’t move while attacking, have to stand still, no feinting, no footwork, no aiming, just press a button and guess which direction to parry from.

    SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT GAME GUISE.



  • @Asmon:

    This strategy is indeed retarded. Yet it is easily counterable; just stop following the retard sprinter, stay out of range and watch him run out of stamina by slashing the thin air. Use the terrain and natural obstacles.

    WTF! You are right of course! Why did I not think of it… And no, right now I am NOT being ironic, I have just had a revelation - just today, I have encountered 3 high level vanguard players using this silly strategy (really, it gives the “helicopter” thing a whole new dimension) and subconsciously I tried to apply the strategy you are proposing. And guess what. It just didn’t work. One of them vanguards managed to keep running and swinging wildly with his claymore for about 2 minutes (it was the end of TDM, just me, him and one of my teammates) before I finally ran out of patience went in for the kill and died trying.