Remove team damage on siege weapons



  • That’s all there is to it. People run by and kick you when you’re on it all the time, especially the catapult on Battlegrounds, on every single server I’ve played.

    I wish this game had a mature enough community to handle it but it doesn’t, so measures have to be taken. It’s absolutely endemic and there’s zero reason to not do this.



  • @SnakeTheFox:

    That’s all there is to it. People run by and kick you when you’re on it all the time, especially the catapult on Battlegrounds, on every single server I’ve played.

    I wish this game had a mature enough community to handle it but it doesn’t, so measures have to be taken. It’s absolutely endemic and there’s zero reason to not do this.

    Well yesterday one guy managed to tk 4 guys in one shot lol.
    Highest I’ve ever seen personally.
    You’d want to kick him too.
    But yeah its annoying getting kicked when using the catapult.
    People do it even if you haven’t done smth wrong. I end up rage tk them sometimes :P
    Also getting kicked in the middle of the shot makes the catapult release. So you might tk because of an idiot teammate and take the blame.



  • If he’s a really bad catapulter (is that a word? idc) and TKs people, you can votekick him out. But knocking people off the catapult is just griefing regardless of whether you’ve been accidentally TK’d or not.

    Anyway, the way the catapults work on all the maps I’ve used them on, it’s pretty much inevitable that you’ll have a few bad shots, especially when you have to fire at long range. Personally I think siege equipment in general needs a complete rework because they’re not terribly viable at the moment. You get a few lucky shots but it’s not a weapon you can get “skilled” at. Actually the only improvements that you can make are learning how long to charge up a shot to reach certain distances, but more than that it’s a luck (good or bad) weapon.



  • I agree. If the person on the catapult is a TKer, he’ll leave the catapult himself or get kicked.



  • @SnakeTheFox:

    That’s all there is to it. People run by and kick you when you’re on it all the time, especially the catapult on Battlegrounds, on every single server I’ve played.

    A good catapulter gets kicked less. If the cart is out of range of the catapult it is a little annoying when someone is sending useless barrages instead of helping his team achieve the objective.



  • @gregcau:

    A good catapulter gets kicked less. If the cart is out of range of the catapult it is a little annoying when someone is sending useless barrages instead of helping his team achieve the objective.

    I’ll repeat myself: if a catapulter is doing notably bad, you can votekick them. Griefing them is not a mature response, and I don’t see why you’re defending it. This is sort of playing into my original claim about maturity in this game.

    And I’ll repeat the other thing I said too: the catapult is a luck weapon. This is especially true at longer ranges (which, for map balance reasons, is usually the range it finds itself in; that last stretch on Battlegrounds is usually the longest time-wise).

    You scan the map, try to predict where enemies will be, and fire. Usually it’s either successful or innocuous, but people only tend to remember that one time they were TK’d with a group of 4 enemies rather than the myriad of good or nil shots precipitating it. Even the best catapulters teamkill a couple times in a match, and all it takes is one TK out of a dozen or more good shots for someone to spend the rest of the match kicking you every time they walk by. This, again, plays into the maturity factor which I find lacking, and is why for all hereunto described, I think teamdamage needs to be removed.



  • Yeah let’s give griefers an opportunity to not die >.< seriously, no. The chat and votekick is useless 80% of the time so killing them is the next best solution.



  • @Hitom:

    Yeah let’s give griefers an opportunity to not die >.< seriously, no. The chat and votekick is useless 80% of the time so killing them is the next best solution.

    I’ll be the first to admit a serious deficiency in the votekicking system but I find it seriously hard to believe a deliberate griefer (or even a poor catapulter) would not be kicked after teamkilling a bunch of people. I’ve yet to even see someone intentionally grief with a catapult after 60 some odd hours and the few instances of bad catapulters screwing up were all swiftly dealt with via votekick. Teamkill one person and it’s easy to evade the ire of the majority vote by lying in chat but teamkill 1/3rd of a team and I’d be honestly shocked if it didn’t end in a yes vote.

    But the simple fact of the matter is that griefing is not a mature response to griefing and does not do this community any good.



  • Catapults are great for medium range kills, but that’s also where you’re more likely to kill your own teammates. I don’t know if he was in that game, but I killed 4 teammates with one shot. They voted no because I still only had 4% team damage. I also killed 7 enemies with the cat that round 8-)
    The catapult is misused at long ranges because people think they can use it to get cheap kills. It’s better used to make a specific zone of the map risky to walk through (for either side) - creating a choke point. On Hillside this is especially effective but too often your own team doesn’t watch the great big balls going to the same spot over and over as they run straight into it. :x



  • @BillDoor:

    Catapults are great for medium range kills, but that’s also where you’re more likely to kill your own teammates. I don’t know if he was in that game, but I killed 4 teammates with one shot. They voted no because I still only had 4% team damage. I also killed 7 enemies with the cat that round 8-)
    The catapult is misused at long ranges because people think they can use it to get cheap kills. It’s better used to make a specific zone of the map risky to walk through (for either side) - creating a choke point. On Hillside this is especially effective but too often your own team doesn’t watch the great big balls going to the same spot over and over as they run straight into it. :x

    I agree that the catapult is most effecient when at medium range, but I find that on all the maps I use it on (as an almost sole Agatha player) the window in which a catapult can be used at medium range is usually a short one. On Battlegrounds for example (where I get most of my catapult time), the ram is usually pushed a decent ways before the Masons finally retard the offensive and lines are drawn; these lines are usually pretty far away from the catapult itself.

    I actually find it surprisingly easy to use once you learn the average “clicks” all the major landmarks are, but the big issue becomes “pixel-hunting”, otherwise known as “is that tiny sword-flailing spec an enemy or an ally?”. I’m usually successful just by knowing where the enemies are likely to be coming from, but there is that occasional poorly judged shot that teamkills someone. It’s simply not fair to grief that person for the rest of the match for a hiccup. Persistent screwups are one thing but I find once is usually all it takes to get someones panties in the proverbial knot.



  • I don’t like the idea of removing team damage from any weapon, it doesn’t fit with the spirit of the game. What I do like is booting someone up the arse if they’re repeatedly TK’ing with the cannon and not apologising or responding to chat. It seems far more polite than calling a kickvote, lets them know you’re pissed off and probably saves a teammates’ life (unless you’re dumb enough to do it while they’re firing, in which case it’s really your TK). Sometimes people might not speak your language so they don’t understand the chat, or (if they’re English) they probably just can’t read.

    Possibly crap tip for fellow noobs
    The catapult on Battlegrounds is briefly really useful as Mason if you can get to it shortly after the market and granary are burned down - turn it left as far as you can and pop a shot just behind the cart (you’ll be firing blind over a hill and using the cart’s marker text as a guide). This can bag you a few kills with minimal TKs - especially if you keep an eye on the kill reports for a quiet moment and listen for the absence of combat (just the sound of the cart rolling and masons shouting = fire at will). As an extra bonus, you’ll probably get at least one Agathian abandoning the cart to come to you for revenge. If, for some weird reason, nobody comes to get revenge, you can keep leathering them right onto the bridge.

    As Agatha, IDK, don’t often use the catapult unless I can see a good shot forming and there’s nobody else on it. Certainly don’t use it once the cart’s reached the bottom of the hill, way too easy to TK. Maybe again at the end if there’s no blue on the hill, no blue on the far left and all red around the cart.

    More rambling
    If you’ve racked up a couple of TK’s in a catapult session, apologise and have a serious look at where you’re aiming. If you can see friendlies moving into your target, waste the shot (by firing to the left or right or just holding the button down a moment longer) - it’s never worth risking firing into a melee, they’re closer to the front that you are and doing more good. On Battlegrounds especially, you can lose the game for your team by TK’ing that guy who’s made it to the cart and is pushing alone and unnoticed behind enemy lines.

    If it’s used well then the catapult is awesome support - was in a game on Stoneshill the other night where trickshot from this thread (I play as “Ballard’s Ford”) killed a bunch of Agathians and made all the difference to getting us into the castle - only TK’d once that I saw, made me feel real camaraderie having that cover while I was in the group going for the ram. Then I got team-switched and the swine beat me up with a stick :x



  • If the arrow cam wasn’t broken on the catapult this would be a non-issue as you could tell where your shots landed.



  • Ah Ballard’s Ford, you play mostly vanguard if I’m not mistaken. Yeah that was a fun game.
    You met the shaolin’s wrath eh? Though I remember my head rolling from your overheads on plenty occasions.

    Catapult can be extremely useful. You just have to aim very carefully.
    And learn the clicks well. Its just 2 maps it can be widely used, so its not that hard.
    When there are teammates fighting and you’re pretty sure of yourself, aim behind the enemies. That way the blast will still kill them and your allies will be unharmed. Probably :P
    Also go for archers and aim close to spawn. Never aim for the cart. At least not in front of it.

    Furthermore there are calculated risks. For example if theres one teammate fighting 3-4 enemies, well he wont mind that much if you take him with them :P
    And its a good call. There is one big but (not butt :D) though.
    If hes going for the obj and hes fighting say 2 enemies, its not smart to take him out. Its better to give him a chance because the enemies will respawn way closer than him. And taking him out doesnt help if there’s no backup on the way to the obj.

    Just my 2 cents so you can use the catapult effectively and not break your teammates nerves.
    Always think whats best for the team and not your kill count.
    Dont get tempted into shooting just because you see a shitload of ppl in one area.
    Target “safe” areas, minimize friendly casualties and you’ll be a great help.
    Of course when it takes 3-4 seconds for the boulder to land, accidents will happen.
    So I guess everyone should be patient with the catapult handler and not hit him at the first tk.
    But if you’re having a bad game and tk 2-3 guys in a short period of time, best to apologize and leave the catapult for that game.

    I think my best catapult score is ~35 kills and 2 tks.
    And yeah arrow cam would be extremely helpful. I hope it will be fixed.



  • Removing team damage would make catapults too powerful in some maps as one team could just spam catapults at their own team and nobody could get close to them.

    There’s a few problems with the catapult that could be fixed which would ease these team killing problems:

    As mentioned fix arrow cam so you can see what you’re doing.

    Make team damage with the catapult appear as Team damage for the purposes of votekick.

    Finally, on some maps the location of the siege weapons needs to be changed. Particularly on Battlegrounds the catapult is more of a hinderance than a help. It’s already hard enough for the attackers on that map and the window of opportunity in which the catapult is actually useful is very limited. Really what that map needs is a continuation of the defensive wall in front of the ballista (which it already is in LTS mode on that map) so that when the attackers have pushed the bomb cart past that point, the attackers spawn closer up and the defenders further back. That would make the map more interesting and stop people from using the catapult after the point it is useless. Another idea would be to put more defensive walls in that map but make them destructible like in Darkforest. At least that would make the catapult more useful and less likely to team kill.


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