On the subject of "OP Weapons"



  • This is just a personal observation, but in my many hours playing the game I have not found a weapon or playstyle that is unbeatable. When you find players, like bada, who beat you consistently with the sword of war, it can be all to easy to call out that “Weapon X is OP.” as the reason why you lost.

    And that is the reason why you, personally, will never beat any other player skilled at using that weapon. Because the moment you call something OP is the moment you stop trying to learn how to beat it.

    The fact of the matter is, every weapon in this game needs to be defended against (and attacked at) differently. And when one weapon is particularly difficult for you to fight its not because its overpowered, but because you have a gap in your defenses. You have that gap because you’ve been slowly building up an idea of how to fight other players as you play this game, and there’s a hole somewhere in this mental knowledge you’ve armored yourself in.

    Maybe you aren’t turning all the way to the side to block the angles of a “face hugging” slash, instead trying to defend against them the same way you would a spears stab. This doesn’t make face-hugging OP. This makes it something that you, personally, are not good at defending against. Maybe you can’t block someone who is feinting all of their attacks and you feel bad because you’re blocking too early. That doesn’t make feints OP or “broken” it means you, personally, do not yet know how to defend against them.

    And it will take time to plug all those holes in your knowledge. It takes everyone time. We all started this game without this knowledge. But when you give up, call a weapon OP, and refuse to learn how to defend against it (because believe me, every last weapon in this game can be defended against) it’s entirely your own fault for loosing against it.

    Because here is the hardest, most brutal, and most beautiful fact of chivalry: every time you die, it’s because you messed up.



  • True. The first weapon is was stuck with was the zweihander. I loved it, but apparently it was too OP. Moved on to brandistock and finally sword of war. All of which have been called OP. :x



  • @hawkwing:

    Because here is the hardest, most brutal, and most beautiful fact of chivalry: every time you die, it’s because you messed up.

    Never played against a good archer? :D

    But on topic: I don’t think there are any OP weapons left in chiv, they all got nerfed. But we still have plenty of UP weapons…



  • Lets not forget about the bardiche, it needs an animation tweak so that you can actually see its accelerated swing coming.

    On topic, I like that I’m not the only one who is tired of people whining about weapons being OP.



  • It’s possible to kill speedhackers in this game too, doesn’t make it fair though

    Weapons like the Dane Axe or Halberd were broke or overpowered
    Dane had buggy animations while the Halberd had a stab that was straight up better than the entire spear tree

    Concerning the SoW, the stats are so similar to the Longsword it’s incredibly hard to tell if it’s OP or not
    Both take the same hits to kill the lighter classes, heavier classes are weaker to pierce though, and that’s where the SoW pulls out in front

    It’s more powerful than the longsword, but only barely



  • Because here is the hardest, most brutal, and most beautiful fact of chivalry: every time you die, it’s because you messed up.

    You completely lost the plot right here.

    Open your eyes: chivalry is nowhere near perfect. There are actually lots of bugged animations and mechanics in the game that you can hardly defend against.

    Sword of war stab animations for example are a little bit dodgy and it can be hard to see whether your opponent is actually charging a counterattack or not. I don’t blame myself for dying to those.

    I don’t blame myself for dying to a bardiche lookdown overhead. The animation is completely broken.

    I also can’t be blamed for dying either to a 2h feint > lookdown or a 1h feint > attack. They are completely unreadable, there is nothing I could have done.

    You’re assuming the game is perfect. The simple fact that it isn’t completely destroys your entire thread.



  • @BB:

    It’s possible to kill speedhackers in this game too, doesn’t make it fair though

    I have to agree with this. I mean, I am by no means saying that this game is somehow horrendously unbalanced (I think even the launch version was about 90% balanced), but I don’t think the fact that you can overcome any weapon with sufficient skill means that there are no unbalanced weapons.

    A good player will always beat a bad player. A good player using a double axe will beat a bad one using the claymore. That doesn’t mean that the double axe is a good weapon.

    I think a better way to look at balance is to take two players of identical skill levels, hand them different weapons, and make them go 1v1. I’m willing to bet my left leg that, using the above example, the claymore user would beat the double axe user 9-1. Obviously, it’s a bit impossible to have two players of exactly identical skill levels, but shut up, I’m making a point.

    In a sense, I think it comes down to this: are some weapons significantly easier to use successfully than others? If so, then I think that counts as imbalance. If you have to put less effort into being successful with one weapon, but more effort into another, than that is not balanced. Is this a giant, game crushing problem? Nope. I don’t think so.

    Then again, I’m not sure I can comment that much because I’ve only really sunk significant time into the knight. Still, I don’t think this game is anywhere near as unbalanced as a lot of people seem to think it is. It’s certainly not perfect, but I don’t think I can see anything that requires some kind of emergency procedures.

    So basically Hawkwing, I’m agreeing with you in spirit, but I’m bitching about your argument because I am so pedantic :D



  • Because here is the hardest, most brutal, and most beautiful fact of chivalry: every time you die, it’s because you messed up.

    Combat needs a lot of work before you’ll be able to make such statement true. People very often die because combat not working as they expect it to, in a sensible way. They also die because they don’t know about combat mechanics that can be abused to give player an edge (even tutorial doesn’t cover it). There are deaths I can atribute to my own fault and that’s perfectly fine. There are, however, deaths happening due to how counter-intuitive the game is and that isn’t my fault in my opinion.

    Here is an excellent video showing what I am talking about. Tell me now combat works as it should.



  • @Holy.Death:

    Because here is the hardest, most brutal, and most beautiful fact of chivalry: every time you die, it’s because you messed up.

    Combat needs a lot of work before you’ll be able to make such statement true. People very often die because combat not working as they expect it to, in a sensible way. They also die because they don’t know about combat mechanics that can be abused to give player an edge (even tutorial doesn’t cover it). There are deaths I can atribute to my own fault and that’s perfectly fine. There are, however, deaths happening due to how counter-intuitive the game is and that isn’t my fault in my opinion.

    Here is an excellent video showing what I am talking about. Tell me now combat works as it should.

    Yup yup. I can definitely admit when I die because I messed up. For example, the past week I’ve been playing like crap mostly. My fault.

    What isn’t my fault, however, is when a weapon sails right through my block, or my own attack goes through my badly wounded opponents chest with no effect at all. Or when the game just suddenly ups and decides “You know what, I’ve had enough of functioning today”, and just decides to not let me parry at all anymore. Yesterday alone I counted no less than four deaths where something just bugged up and got me killed.

    I’m not sure faulty mechanics are really related to weapon balance though…



  • There are no unbeatable weapons, but there are certainly weapons that are a cut above the rest, and weapons that are significantly weaker than everything else in their respective categories. It takes time to balance weapons; we’re not close yet.



  • @Martin:

    It takes time to balance weapons; we’re not close yet.

    I’d rather say: it takes time to balance weapons; but we’ve created too many of them therefore there is no way to balance them correctly unless we let several weapons have the same statistics (the difference will consequently just be a matter of visual).

    Besides, bearded axe and bardiche accelerated overheads are still, amongst others, unreadable.



  • no way to balance them

    Haha well that sure is pessimistic
    Not to mention completely wrong

    Also when are daggers gonna get nerfed??
    If bardiche and bearded are unreadable you must be psychic to block those things!



  • I’m with asmondeus on this one, some weapons have to be very similar. There is no way you can balance this many weapons in a game otherwise. Most weapons can’t even differ much in damage, as you either 2 or 3 shot a Knight, after that come the borders to overpowered as shit and useless.

    Especially the ranged weapons…tbh 3 bows and 2 different arrow types are just a pain in the ass to balance. And another 3 crossbows on top of that… AoC was fine with one bow and one crossbow, the bow needed 3 hits for heavy enemies and the crossbow 2. Because of 3 bows and 2 arrow types we got the warbow bodkin monster, 2 shots Knights and can one shot Vgs(Hell the only melee weapon that can do that is the MAUL super slow, super short on the slowest class). Who needs a crossbow if you can have a warbow with bodkins? If one thing in this game is still op its the warbow.



  • I think there are more OP players than OP weapons.

    Balancing all weapons while still making them all unique is going to take some effort (apparently the purpose of the patch after this one).

    I suspect with a spreadsheet which includes the weapon ranges and a good algorithm it is possible though.

    Still balancing the secondaries seems less important.



  • Oh pffft whatever I can name each weapon and tell you exactly how balanced it is
    Broad-good
    Norse-good
    Falchion-good
    Hatchet-good
    War-good
    Dane-good
    Mace-could use a small buff, frankly just underwhelming
    Star-good
    Sprinkler-stabstabstabstab
    Great-good
    Claymore-could use a small nerf, short release makes it way too good at comboing
    Zweih-uhg, fuck it but it’s good
    Spear-the spear tree could use a rework with their attacks
    Fork-ditto
    Brandistock-ditto
    Bardiche-fix the animations and polearm tree will be good
    Billhook-ditto
    Halberd-ditto
    Longsword-good
    SoW-could use a tiny nerf
    Messer-good
    Warhammer-is this thing fixed yet? I don’t even know
    Maul-good
    That one bashy stick-good
    Double-lol
    Poleaxe-good
    Norse axe-could use a small nerf

    From
    Memory
    I got all except that one knight beaty stick

    Oh and I don’t play archer, but then who care about them??



  • @Falc:

    I’m with asmondeus on this one, some weapons have to be very similar. There is no way you can balance this many weapons in a game otherwise. Most weapons can’t even differ much in damage, as you either 2 or 3 shot a Knight, after that come the borders to overpowered as shit and useless.

    Especially the ranged weapons…tbh 3 bows and 2 different arrow types are just a pain in the ass to balance. And another 3 crossbows on top of that… AoC was fine with one bow and one crossbow, the bow needed 3 hits for heavy enemies and the crossbow 2. Because of 3 bows and 2 arrow types we got the warbow bodkin monster, 2 shots Knights and can one shot Vgs(Hell the only melee weapon that can do that is the MAUL super slow, super short on the slowest class). Who needs a crossbow if you can have a warbow with bodkins? If one thing in this game is still op its the warbow.

    I’ve been saying this pretty much since I got the game in November. It’s like they drew up a list of weapons and then went “Right, we have to figure out stats for all of these”. We’ve got a bunch of solutions looking for a problem.



  • You’re going off topic, guys, this is about weapon balance. Current weapon balance, I might add. This isn’t a post about bugs or broken gameplay mechanics like the rubber-banding on MaA dodges.

    So yes, if you are killed because of a ghost swing, that’s unfair. But that’s a bug, not chivalry’s balance.

    Every other post on this page is incorrect: you could have prevented that death with better play. Did an attack sail around your block? That’s because you didn’t block far enough in the right direction. Got hit by a player feinting? That’s because he forced you on the defensive and you didn’t know how to break out. And Bloodhead, you’re just wrong. You are the very type of person my original post was aimed at. You have given up learning how to defend against these supposedly OP and broken things, making yourself a tidy little self-fulfilling prophecy. This game takes skill. Skill that you are not going to obtain by assigning the blame for your death on the weapon choice of the other player.

    Note: warbow is not OP, as shown by its usage in competitive play. The problem is that all the other bows and crossbows that aren’t the Warbow or (more recently seeing a rise in popularity) the heavy Xbow, are under-powered.



  • only warbow is used in comp, this means all other archer weapons are underpowered

    Lol great reasoning there guy

    I suppose when all the MAAs used the Dane it meant everything else was underpowered too huh??



  • @BB:

    only warbow is used in comp, this means all other archer weapons are underpowered

    Lol great reasoning there guy

    I suppose when all the MAAs used the Dane it meant everything else was underpowered too huh??

    But it is true none the less in the case of the warbow.

    But this is because it is more effective to carefully aim your shot to compensate for their movement pattern and so a faster firing speed becomes less of a factor.



  • @Dubjay:

    Lets not forget about the bardiche, it needs an animation tweak so that you can actually see its accelerated swing coming.

    On topic, I like that I’m not the only one who is tired of people whining about weapons being OP.

    Not the Bardiche the problem lays with, told you this many times already Dubjay. Its the Polearm attack animation, that goes for all the weapon. and that shit should’ve been fixed a while ago.


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