Knight is OP



  • Knight is overpowered. Why? I’m not totally sure, I think a lot of things contribute.

    For their armor and hp, they’re very quick in close combat. They can duck under swings and pop back up (try doing that in armor - lol), and their walking speed is very fast. It lets them close ranges quickly.

    To properly balance them their walking speed needs to be slower. Obviously you can’t just decrease knight movement speed without tweaking the other classes, but slower speed is the only thing you can do to make range a relevant weapon attribute. Which for the most part it absolutely is not. If knight is made slower man at arms doge needs a nerf. But then it needs one anyway. They (and all classes) need a bit more lead up to full speed sprinting, and rather than instantly being able to drop out of a run momentum needs to be a thing.

    Secondly, they use man at arms primary weapons as a secondary weapon with no nerf to the weapons. Its dumb, they’re in heavy armor, they should be swinging it slower just at face value, man at arms weapons when used by a knight should be slightly slower than when a man at arms uses that same weapon, or do less damage. Nerfing both is probably too much.

    By having unaltered man at arms primary weapons as a secondary, and viable primary weapons, you’ve given them two weapon choices that are viable and not situational. A man at arms has a primary, which is very versatile, and their secondary weapons are stuff like dagger or cudgel. Very situational weapons. This gives knight the greatest diversity in playstyle, they have to press one button and everything about how they fight will immediately change.

    Speaking of secondary weapon damage, its too high. Nerfing movement speed to make range relevant might be a step in the proper direction, and remove the OPness of 1hs, but they’ll probably need an across the board damage decrease, just as most 2h weapons need a speed decrease.

    Shields, and the classes that use them, are not done properly. If someone is using a buckler, and their legs are exposed, you should be able to stab those legs. Shields should be physical objects, not whatever they are now (a parry that is sustained?) so you can actually hit below/around them. If you raise a shield up and someone is super close to you, within facehug distance, it should repel them backward slightly, as it did in aoc. Not a stun like a kick, just a ‘move back’ type thing, and cost a small amount of stamina.

    Remove third person entirely so people with shields actually have a negative - not being able to properly see. Seriously, its far too late in the game for third person to still be here.

    When feint is a cointoss mechanic, what becomes the most important attribute? The ability to lose more coin tosses. You’re instantly at a tremendous advantage by having more hp, with how feints work.

    And, this goes for all classes, the overhead lookdown bug needs to be fixed asap. No joke, do it immediately, its obnoxious.

    The best solution i can see is to increase windup times for attacks the further down your screen you look. Like imagine a line going through slightly below the middle of your screen, and a gradient going from that line to the bottom of your screen. (obviously i mean like, the angle of your lean i’m just saying screen to be more clear of this). If you’re looking at your feet, you’ll still SWING faster, but the windup for the swing will take longer. Fits with the idea of preparing for a massive strike and whipping down your weapon. Removing third person will instantly do a lot to nerf the overhead lookdown/abusive swing dragging and make people who do it actually need skill and the ability to imagine the fight going on around them. And limit how much people can drag down after they’ve initiated an attack, so you can start the windup looking up then suddenly lean over and look down.

    PS- I want an official statement from the devs, as soon as possible about what, if anything, they plan to do about the lookdown exploit. If they view this as a feature rather than a HUGE GAMEBREAKING ISSUE, i’m out. I’ll find a better game, and wait until all the melee games that will be inspired by chivalry combat - but do it ‘properly’ come out.

    There seems to be a lack of transparency from the devs. All we want is to know exactly what you’re thinking of doing to the game, and complete and utter openess. That is, put everything on the table. Tell us your roadmap for the future. Do you plan samurai DLC? A viking expansion? A ‘blacksmith workshop’ where you sell items?

    Stop keeping the community in the dark about upcoming features, then putting them in the game and finding they’re weirdly bugged, and start testing properly. How alt swings made it into the game with that bug where they come from the opposite side makes no sense to me. How feints were not nerfd before the beta ended even though you had jack badly showing how easy they were to exploit, and how lookdown overheads worked makes no sense to me.

    I honestly want to love you guys. You’ve made the two most amazing games i’ve ever played, age of chivalry and chivalry, I’ve sunk 2,500 playtime hours in between them, but you make it hard man.

    I’ve also included a chart of how i see the relative absolute abilities of each class. Vanguard starts out being the easiest, then knight, then man at arms, then archer. Vanguard gets better rapidly and hits its skill ceiling first. Man at arms develops more slowly but eventually becomes superior. (the man at arms skill line is a little sketchy, but accurate at the beginning and end of the chart, the middle is a bit arguable.) Knight is slightly less easy than vanguard at the beginning but rapidly becomes and stays easier to use, and has a higher absolute skill ceiling. ARcher obviously has the highest ceiling, and is the hardest to begin with.

    I’m VERY interested in other people’s version of the chart, and your opinions, if it won’t take you too long make one and attach it to your post.



  • I say make the knight slower but make him less prone to flinch.

    I’ll take my check in the mail TB!



  • Knights, OP? Now I’ve heard everything.

    Your perception of armour is already wrong. A full suit of plate mail (scroll up and look to the left of your screen, its a good example) weighed about 25kg, roughly the same combat load of modern day infantry. And just like their modern peers, armoured footmen were trained and conditioned in these suits. So yes, knights are slower, but they are by no means slow.

    And honestly, a knight is already slow enough. Any MAA who’s worth his salt knows he can always dodge out of a knight swing if he keeps his distance. Any slower and the knight won’t be a viable option for combat.

    As mentioned above, knights IRL were trained to handle weapons in full combat load, so there’s no reason they shouldn’t be able to operate them with the same efficiency as other classes. In terms of gameplay, knights are already disadvantaged by speed, if they switch to their secondary they’re throwing away their range as well (And don’t tell me range is irrelevant, any decent player will tell you it is).



  • I’m going to say this right now, so that my perspective is absolutely clear.

    I play every class in the game very well. I believe anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely 100% wrong and needs to play more. I think my original post is long enough to stand on its own and I wont reply to anything else that gets posted in this thread, although I will read all of the posts.



  • @JCash:

    I believe anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely 100% wrong and needs to play more.

    You’re right. I now realize how grievously wrong i am, and will now proceed to abandon thread and enjoy some Chivalry.



  • @Wangmaster:

    @JCash:

    I believe anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely 100% wrong and needs to play more.

    You’re right. I now realize how grievously wrong i am, and will now proceed to abandon thread and enjoy some Chivalry.

    Yeah I was going to reply, stating my opinion, but I guess the OP doesnt want it.
    No point discussing with someone that already thinks I’m 100% wrong and needs to l2p.



  • The knight is not OP. It’s the mechanics of the game that need tweaking. Right now for an experienced man at arms it is a bit too hard to kill and experienced knight because of combos. The fact you can’t flinch the combo half the time means you can just combo through their attack and kill them. This is fixed in the patch and will make a good impact on balance in terms of those 2 classes. But also the other classes since you will often just combo through each other until one of you dies.

    Some of the knight weapons do need to be tweaked and balanced. The grand mace makes the maul completely pointless because both weapons kill in 2 hits but the grand mace is much faster and it’s accelerated overheads can be abused much better. Other than that I would say that this class is fairly balanced. I often find myself getting killed by skilled vanguards just as much as I kill them. The same foes for man at arms mostly and even archers too.

    The bearded axe is much too fast and needs it’s speed slowed down slightly although it should still be the fasted 2 handed axe available. Enough said.

    The double axe is actually one of my favorite weapons in terms of its aesthetics. But in terms of performance it sucks. Let me point out that the double axe overhead does not even kill and archer in 1 hit even if the overhead lands on their head. That makes absolutely no sense. Even the longsword can kill an archer in 1 hit if the overhead hits their head. This should give some idea of just how under powered this weapon is. It’s overhead needs to do more damage I think.

    Vanguards need more archer resistance. The smoke pots just don’t cut it. Arrows need to do slightly less damage to vanguards because currently, getting hit by 1 arrow means you have to go and regenerate the lost health whereas Man at Arms are much harder to hit and have access to a shield and knights can tank the damage. Other archers are usually hidden from afar taking cover and targeting the enemy archers which means that the vanguard is the most vulnerable to arrows. Smoke pots are temporary which means you have to know when to use them. But the smoke pots also create a disadvantage for your own team because they can often get in the way of your teams archers too. Slight arrow resistance for vanguards would make their job just a little easier.
    Also a friend pointed out to me that the Zweihander charge attack only does 105 damage upon hit however the Greatsword charge attack does 115. If this is still the case then how does that make sense? The Zweihander is supposed to be the slow damage dealing sword. It should at least have equal charge attack damage output to the other swords, if not more.
    The Bardiche needs some attention because of it’s instant overhead capability. It could be just the animation as some people say it is and I hope they are right, but if it was then it makes no sense why the other polearms accelerated overheads aren’t as effective as the Bardiche and that is why personally I think the issue lies within the weapon itself.

    Man at arms I can’t really comment on. They seem fairly balanced to me. I’ve heard Alterbyme say that in his opinion the only real way to kill a man at arms is to use a shield and sword if you’re a knight. I used to think like that too until I joined the Royal Knights and they showed me just how much easier it can be to fight a man at arms with your primary weapon such as the Longsword. I think it’s balanced at the moment as a class. Some of the weapons such as the hatchet and war axe I find are more difficult to counter than they perhaps should be and these particular weapons often seem to go through my parry but for the most part it seems balanced. It does take a lot of skill and patience and tactics to play man at arms against an experienced player however so I have full respect for the Man at arms players out there!

    Archer seems fairly balanced I think accept for the melee. The Shortsword kills a man at arms in 2 hits which I don’t think is balanced at all. It makes their job harder than it should be. If an archer gets caught in close combat he should suffer more than the other classes. The javalin is pretty imbalanced too. The buckler shield can’t block to save it’s life (literally) and the ammo count for the javalins kind of sucks too. Some testing should be done with this particular variation of the archer in the upcoming balance and game mechanics patch. I think the heart of the problem lies with the shield which is very ineffective against basically everything.

    Ghost swings should be fixed in this up and coming soon to be released patch as Slygoat mentioned which will fix a ton of issues and make the game much more playable because these ghost swings occur way too much currently. Fists will now have tracers like weapons do, making them duckable which is great. Fists in this current game version are fun but somewhat spamable so the including of tracers should take fist combat in Chivalry to a whole new level which I am very excited for personally. Now whenever you can kill your opponent with firsts it really will shame them just like it did in Age of chivalry! Tons of other great changes in this soon to be released patch that will make the game much more playable and fun and balanced and changes to feinting are already being beta tested which the community should be happy about. Torn banner are clearly responding to the community here which is something most companies would not do. In fact the developers of most games wouldn’t even take the time out to even engage with the community on this level so we’re all really lucky that Torn Banner care this much! Big shout out to TB! Keep up the exceptional work!

    -Lucian



  • Make vanguard charge unblockable, this will give them a niche without making them more like knights.



  • Knight is not OP. Just top-tier
    And having the Knight as top-tier is better than having any other class as top-tier.

    Top-tier does not mean unbeatable. Plenty of ways to take down a knight; Plenty of ways to take down any other class too.

    All this being said… you probably won’t get anywhere. I think most people on THIS forum bitch and whine about MaA mostly and probably think you are crazy. And with the arrogant rude manner of your post… they probably think you a tool and no one will heed you much attention.



  • Meh most of this post is moot as patch will remove combo through flinch. I think that’s the primary problem with knights and 1h. They can combo through your hits and survive.



  • Nope, can’t be serious.

    Who actually are you?



  • Goodness.

    Knight is op?

    I better put down my mace as man at arms and just climb out of this pile of dead knights.



  • I completely agree, knights are so overpowered it’s ludicrous. I mean, the person who thought that the slowest class in the game should have a lot of health was clearly not right in the head.

    Here are some other changes I’d like to see implemented:

    • Archers should have bows, crossbows and javelins removed. The only weapon they have that isn’t OP is the sling, and they should only get the pebble ammo for that as well.

    • MAA should have their shoelaces tied together. Also, kicks should oneshot them.

    • Vanguards should have the range of all their weapons halved, and the range of their spears needs to be cut by about 75%. Also, choosing a vanguard should result in an instant kick for teamkilling.

    GET CRACKING, TB!!!



  • @JCash:

    I believe anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely 100% wrong and needs to play more.

    And you wonder why someone is crashing your server lol



  • While the OP is bullshit, I find this “chart” kind of illustrative.

    I would make only slight changes:
    First of all, archer is never more powerful than a MaA until very, very high skill levels.
    Second, the most powerful class is MaA until the knight players learn they don’t need the mobility if they have weapons of the same speed as MaA and then they begin to dominate (excellent weapon speed, largest shield, best resilience, good damage per hit).

    I would not say that knights are OP, they are pretty fine IMHO. It’s the vanguards that are underwhelming (if we disregard the stupid kiting that has come into fashion recently).



  • The chart is just silly. If the axis were labelled effectiveness over skill it might make sense. “Time” is different for everybody.



  • @gregcau:

    @JCash:

    I believe anyone who disagrees with me is absolutely 100% wrong and needs to play more.

    And you wonder why someone is crashing your server lol

    Everyone who act like that deserve to get mad



  • I’ve been playing Chivalry for 2 years and I disagree Knight is OP :P

    What is OP is Knight weapons that shouldn’t be retardedly fast but have low HTK, ala, Bearded Axe and Grand Mace, and the lookdown overheads enhancing a lot of the Knight’s weapons; the Longsword’s overhead for example, can turn out to be faster than a Sword of War’s stab in some instances.



  • @Martin:

    I’ve been playing Chivalry for 2 years and I disagree Knight is OP :P

    What is OP is Knight weapons that shouldn’t be retardedly fast but have low HTK, ala, Bearded Axe and Grand Mace, and the lookdown overheads enhancing a lot of the Knight’s weapons.

    Just to be clear, you are talking about the instant overheads where you are looking straight down, and then overheading? Not the basic swing manipulation of “leaning into an overhead”?



  • Yes, although both achieve the same result as long the “release” starts as close to the opponent as possible. It doesn’t matter whether you look down before windup starts, or achieve full lookdown just as windup ends/release starts.


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