Do you think chivalry is a skill based game?



  • Honestly, I am coming to a point where I think why I play this game
    I see no goal. When I bought the game back then I thought this game is skill based and my goal should be becoming a good player.
    Sadly, this game delivers not what I wanted.
    Its an RNG, or GAMBLING game to be short.
    It requires little effort, but a simple press on q to OVERHAUL your enemy.
    Being the ATTACKER means you already won. Theres like 80% chance for the attacker to already win the game, while the defender is about 20%. That role changes when someone succesfully parried. It should never be like that. For a skillful game you need 50%/50%. Currently as attacker you can overhaul your enemy with feints and more feints. YOUR enemy, has to gamble. Either attack, or simply parry.
    Attacks gone pretty much instant with the recent patches (->bugs) I could remember on release that reading feints was A LOT easier.
    Im sitting at 3k kills and 400 deaths in duel mode. You can call me noob or pro. I honestly dont know what I am. The fights are pure RNG. I feint the others to death to be exactly. I just play the attacker and win.
    I can kill pros and pros can kill me. I can kill weaks and weaks can kill me. Thats exactly how it shouldnt be.
    Then we got the huge weapon diversity. Let me tell you that 1 handers pretty much overhauls 2handers. There are only a few viable 2h and the bugged ones. While on the other hand all 1 handers are viable. They deal same damage, they are A LOT faster, they are superior with feints, they have “same” range (when fighting each other, sprint + attack and you reach your opponent).
    Perfect for MAA and their dodge and speed.
    Theres another nice thing torn banners added, for whatever fucking reason.
    Kick stun. I still cant comprehend how insane the devs were to implent something like this.
    ITS A FREE HIT. And its absolutely easy to achieve it. Only MAA are able to counter the kick stun, no other class.
    That 90 degree blocking/parry thing is also insane. You need to fucking block/parry the blade of the weapon, where ever it is. Not the fucking tip. 1h easily force you to dance around.
    That 90 degree wasnt here before the patches. The kick stun wasnt here before the patches.
    I could remember the fights BEFORE THE PATCHES to be fluent and engaging. Sure, feint was there, but people didnt yell “WTF?”, “FUCKING BUG”, “HOWS THAT POSSIBLE?”, etc BEFORE THE PATCHES.
    I dont know how those bugs/mechanics changed/happened. I dont know why a patch takes over 3 months. I dont know why they “beta test” a patch and yet in live version its even more bugged.
    If you want to create a skill based game. Then give EVERYONE the same abilities. Reading feints is impossible, no matter how good you are. You will surrender at last against 1h. you cant read them, especially the late windup feint or combo feints. Outpeforming someone with a gamble system isnt skill based.



  • Its a skill based game which is biased towards throw yourself into attack mode with a list of exploits - face hugging, stab angles, feet staring, alt attacks.

    The bottom line is if you are parrying you are dead so everyone just needs to keep mobile and swing for the fences.



  • I agree with a couple of the things you’ve said. Chivalry does involve some elements of skill of course, but as long as feints exist (and they will always exist), skill won’t always see you through to victory; the moment you incorrectly guess a feint, you’re one step closer to death, and that’s what the game currently revolves around in higher level play. Age of Chivalry on the other hand, was entirely skill based (and had far fewer exploits for that matter) but it had an extremely high learning curve, far higher than this game, and there were no guessing mechanics involved, you relied entirely on footwork, placement and your ability to quickly maneuver in and out of your opponents range in order to dish out damage without receiving any in return. I think that’s the reason I dislike this particular implementation of a feint mechanic the most, because it takes a massive step down from the skills you learnt in AoC (or M&B for those people that also played this game) to guessing, and it ended up feeling more casual as opposed to competitive with it in the game.

    If Chivalry’s feints were all about changing the direction of your swings using the alt-swing mechanic (and an alt swing mechanic that wasn’t favourable to using one side only because of attacks starting at the wrong angles) and using your parry to rapidly switch sides, as opposed to being forced into a dead state of recovery so you essentially end up being free-hitted, I could see things being a bit more skill based, but that’s not the direction Tibberius chose to go with feints, probably because it would have ended up being too similar to Mount and Blade (and alt swings for Chiv were on the menu, so to speak, in 2011, just not in for release because of the strain on the animators) and I suppose the only other direction left was this one, free hits.

    Those are my personal views anyhow; for the most part, Chivalry is a skill based game, but the inclusion of guessing/mind-game mechanics and over abundance of exploits and bugs drags it down a notch.



  • @Martin:

    I agree with a couple of the things you’ve said. Chivalry does involve some elements of skill of course, but as long as feints exist (and they will always exist), skill won’t always see you through to victory; the moment you incorrectly guess a feint, you’re one step closer to death, and that’s what the game currently revolves around in higher level play. Age of Chivalry on the other hand, was entirely skill based (and had far fewer exploits for that matter) but it had an extremely high learning curve, far higher than this game, and there were no guessing mechanics involved, you relied entirely on footwork, placement and your ability to quickly maneuver in and out of your opponents range in order to dish out damage without receiving any in return. I think that’s the reason I dislike this particular implementation of a feint mechanic the most, because it takes a massive step down from the skills you learnt in AoC (or M&B for those people that also played this game) to guessing, and it ended up feeling more casual as opposed to competitive with it in the game.

    If Chivalry’s feints were all about changing the direction of your swings using the alt-swing mechanic (and an alt swing mechanic that wasn’t favourable to using one side only because of attacks starting at the wrong angles) and using your parry to rapidly switch sides, as opposed to being forced into a dead state of recovery so you essentially end up being free-hitted, I could see things being a bit more skill based, but that’s not the direction Tibberius chose to go with feints, probably because it would have ended up being too similar to Mount and Blade (and alt swings for Chiv were on the menu, so to speak, in 2011, just not in for release because of the strain on the animators) and I suppose the only other direction left was this one, free hits.

    Those are my personal views anyhow; for the most part, Chivalry is a skill based game, but the inclusion of guessing/mind-game mechanics and over abundance of exploits and bugs drags it down a notch.

    I’ve never played age of chivalry. Since it doesnt have rng mechanics (no feints) does it have parry?
    Otherwise it sounds damn awesome. Maybe I should try it



  • Yes it is a skill based game.

    It is BASED in skill. You can’t argue the point really - in a non skill based ‘game’, like drawing lots or flipping a coin, everyone has an absolutely equal chance of winning, because the core of the game is random chance, and there is no capability for time invested in the task to improve your ability.

    If you tried to guess the results of a cointoss 100 times you wouldnt be better the 100th time than you are the first time.

    It DOES have a skill ceiling that isn’t all that high, and you can not deny random chance plays a large role in combat. Feints, a luck based cointoss mechanic, limit exactly how good you can be at this game.

    There IS some level of skill in determining when to use feint, but much less than the level of skill required to break a guard without it. It makes the combat more shallow and less based in skill than it would otherwise be, due to it being luck based.

    And @ OP – I entirely agree with everything in your post, thanks for bringing a sane and informed perspective to the forum.



  • Reposting this from another thread b/c its relavent.

    The game can have a degree of luck and still be competitive. How large the degree is everything however. There are rock paper scissors tournaments, and players with more experience generally tend to do better than noobs. That doesn’t mean rock paper scissors is a well designed game and isn’t mostly luck, but if the game is played for a long enough period of time it can mitigate the luck factor.

    Take poker for instance, at the pro level it is said the game is around 70% luck. Yet you generally the same group of players at the final table. Well with all this information, you might be asking, why are luck based games bad? Because in that same poker final table, you will see some random people who are absolute trash and don’t belong there, and you see several REAL pro’s who play a perfect hand only get knocked out early due to an unlucky river.

    In poker, and in Chivalry however, luck is much less of a factor if you don’t know how to play the game. A mod said it in this thread, that to a bad player feint isn’t that powerful of a mechanic because it can be countered. The better you get at Chivalry, the less you will be tricked by advanced techniques, and the larger mastery you have of those said techniques and feinting, the more luck based the game is. If you learn how dancing works, you will no longer be facerolled by ppl dancing, and you can replace dancing with whatever other advanced mechanic. So the game just comes down to who gets the lucky feint.

    To sum things up the game sucks atm, Call of Duty is a more competitive game, let that sink in for a minute.



  • Of course the game is skill. If it wasn’t then the top-scoring people would always be random. It is not. The top scoring people are consistent with their scores, thus skill.



  • @Toll:

    Of course the game is skill. If it wasn’t then the top-scoring people would always be random. It is not. The top scoring people are consistent with their scores, thus skill.

    This^

    It’s funny how the rank 40+ clan players seem to always top the scoreboard on a pub server.



  • Yeah I kind of liked it when kicks were stronger and if I remember right could break parries and leave you open. I was pretty green then. Anyways atm we need some kind of feint, especially when the exploits get fixed or it will be a infinite parry fest.

    With all these bugs people don’t even seem to take the time to feint anymore, its a attack spam atm.

    Personally I rarely feint, maybe that’s because I’m bad :)? Anyways I usually only fient if me and another player parry each other like 3-6 times in a row. Without any feinting some of my encounters seem like they would never end.

    TB is working hard getting rid of combat bugs and that will greatly decrease the gamble element. :D

    p.s. Feint spam pwns me


  • Global Moderator

    @gregcau:

    Its a skill based game which is biased towards throw yourself into attack mode with a list of exploits - face hugging, stab angles, feet staring, alt attacks.

    The bottom line is if you are parrying you are dead so everyone just needs to keep mobile and swing for the fences.

    Face hugging is the only exploit there. The rest are part of the game.

    And I combo off a parry. A party can give you the advantage.

    Though a song and miss then a combo off that is about as good as a feint. Very good against the MAAs that dodge towards you and attack.

    Its a mixture of skill and luck. Don’t screw up and your fine. Most of the time I die because some bastard came up behind me or I made a mistake that my opponent can take advantage of. Or archers.



  • @lemonater47:

    @gregcau:

    Its a skill based game which is biased towards throw yourself into attack mode with a list of exploits - face hugging, stab angles, feet staring, alt attacks.

    The bottom line is if you are parrying you are dead so everyone just needs to keep mobile and swing for the fences.

    Face hugging is the only exploit there. The rest are part of the game.

    No feint/stab + alt attacks are bugged so the animation comes from the opposite side to the defender than the attacker.

    But I agree face hugging opens up all sorts of opportunities to bypass parries and shields in nasty ways that makes it very unsatisfying to be on the defensive.



  • OP has a few points despite his lack luster writing skills, though your complaint about the shield stun is dead wrong.

    This is actually exactly how it should be and shields are still very powerful. Before this, skilled shield users had waaaay to much of an advantage because they were actually immune to feints and nearly impossible to hit. Plus knights already have plenty of HP and their speed debuff hardly effects them.

    All this kick mechanic does is force you to put down your shield every now and then. It’s still hard to land kicks especially if you’re dancing around your opponent. Kicks cost a lot of stamina and you have to attack into fient into kick to actually have a chance at landing your kick which, should that fail, you’ve lost at least 2/3 of your stamina.

    Also can someone elaborate as to how face-hugging is an exploit?? If you’re being faced hugged surely you’re being too stationary?


  • Global Moderator

    @gregcau:

    @lemonater47:

    @gregcau:

    Its a skill based game which is biased towards throw yourself into attack mode with a list of exploits - face hugging, stab angles, feet staring, alt attacks.

    The bottom line is if you are parrying you are dead so everyone just needs to keep mobile and swing for the fences.

    Face hugging is the only exploit there. The rest are part of the game.

    No feint/stab + alt attacks are bugged so the animation comes from the opposite side to the defender than the attacker.

    But I agree face hugging opens up all sorts of opportunities to bypass parries and shields in nasty ways that makes it very unsatisfying to be on the defensive.

    Wait so your saying that you can glitch the alt attack so the animation that the attacker sees is opposite to what the defender sees?

    With face hugging you pretty much have to turn at 90 degree angles to block.



  • Wait so your saying that you can glitch the alt attack so the animation that the attacker sees is opposite to what the defender sees?

    Right now that’s true (you just alt attack after a feint), but it has apparently been fixed for the next patch.



  • @lemonater47:

    Wait so your saying that you can glitch the alt attack so the animation that the attacker sees is opposite to what the defender sees?

    You didn’t know that? Yeah been a clan secret for a while but common knowledge now. How do you think those high ranks seem to just blow through your parry. Recent video showed the same bug in the most recent Beta patch using stab and then alt-slash doing the same thing.



  • RNG? hardly.

    Feinting is an issue yes, I will give you that single point.

    As for any other point, play to rank 50 not abusing exploits and tell me there is no skill in this game. I use a flanged mace kite shield set up, (OMG YOU CAN BLOCK IT) Says about 85% of the people I fight, the other 15% are skilled players who challenge themselves to use footwork in combination with correctly timed and aimed blocks. The ability to put footwork into play with aiming a block/parry is skill, unquestionably.

    Why you may ask does this make a person skilled? BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN’T DO IT. I cannot count on 100 hands the amount of times I have been called a hacker or exploiter because the Vangaurd who is obviously using 3rd person and looking at my groin blocks an overhead without looking up, or even at anything but my balls for that matter.



  • @Kenuric:

    RNG? hardly.

    Feinting is an issue yes, I will give you that single point.

    As for any other point, play to rank 50 not abusing exploits and tell me there is no skill in this game. I use a flanged mace kite shield set up, (OMG YOU CAN BLOCK IT) Says about 85% of the people I fight, the other 15% are skilled players who challenge themselves to use footwork in combination with correctly timed and aimed blocks. The ability to put footwork into play with aiming a block/parry is skill, unquestionably.

    Why you may ask does this make a person skilled? BECAUSE EVERYONE CAN’T DO IT. I cannot count on 100 hands the amount of times I have been called a hacker or exploiter because the Vangaurd who is obviously using 3rd person and looking at my groin blocks an overhead without looking up, or even at anything but my balls for that matter.

    It is not that the game has no skill, its that with the feint mechanic the skill ceiling is incredibly low.

    And that is a conscious design choice. They made a mod before without feinting. They wanted this game to be more casual and nub friendly. But at the same time they seem to want it to have a competitive scene.

    I can’t tell man. Is chiv designed to be a fun casual slashfest or an in depth competitive game that requires great timing, practice, and skill? Its really failing hard at being both, new players and competitive players are playing entirely different games right now. Competitive players are not playing better than new players, they’re abusing non intuitive game mechanics to get an enormous advantage that is insurmountable by people who are not willing to abuse them, or who have not been taught how to exploit, and what weapons are optimally glitched.

    Footwork is of minimal importance with how fast movement speeds are, same with range. Weapon timings are irrelevant with how fast/slow you can make your swings. Blocking is unimportant because people can fake around your parry. No one in the ‘competitive scene’ really knows how to block well.

    You have to understand,

    The above issues make knowledge of weapon timings, weapon ranges, and THE ABILITY TO BLOCK things that only minimally contribute to doing well. Which makes the skill ceiling of this game slightly above, lets say, monopoly.



  • If by skill based you mean exploit then yes it is a skill based game. Sadly the horrible netcode and exploitablity makes this far from skill based. Just look that the pings where player levels are equal and with rare exceptions you will see that the winners will line up according to best ping. Then you have the exploits and the arms race to find them and use them. Finally the game design is also problematic both in logic and design. Archers spam killing and blocking heavy weapons? laughable. Just one of many examples. Blowback+ attack cancel-getting spammed against=death The first to get successful hit usually wins.

    There is a learning curve where it is skill based but once you reach level 35 and have all your weapons unlocked then it is a matter of better PC+better Ping+exploit class=FTW



  • I’m just remaining optimistic for the next patch that’s supposed to be solely balance-centric. It can’t get any worse…can it?



  • @venomblade:

    I’m just remaining optimistic for the next patch that’s supposed to be solely balance-centric. It can’t get any worse…can it?

    What the July patch? Right, I am sure the new developers will not add in any new bugs.


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