What irritates me about Chivalry



  • I know, there are plenty of threads like this one, but I want one for myself :P

    I have 140 hours in Chivalry. It may be a small number for you, but for me it’s one of the most played games on Steam.

    However, I saw the change in how the game (And the community (I mean mostly the high ranked players)) works. In the beginning, when nobody knew of the exploits and much less of them were actually in, the game reminded me extremely of AoC. Goddamn, it even replaced M&B for me D:. I played, became better and actually was pretty good at it. It was skill based and it was just hilariously fun to play. I’m not totaly sure, but it seemed that the game broke for me with the content-patch. Suddenly it was not fun anymore, and the next months I played nearly not at all. So after this break I began to play again and… It’s even worse than before. Now most of the high level players are just feint-spamming-overhead-lookdown-facehugging you to death, all at once. That’s ruining the whole game. You can’t do anything against it, except doing the same and pissing of other players. I won’t! I would rather completely stop playing the game, than this. I would, if I had no hope in the game, to become better. The funny fact with this: I asked several 38-42 level players for a duel without lookdown-overheads, offensive feints and facehugs. I defeated all of them.

    There is only two ways to improve the game: Either remove the exploits, or HEAVILY tweak them. There is no other way for the game to be skillbased again. Seriously, I appreciaty the changes to feints in the beta, but I doubt it’ll help at all (When… IF they are finally implemented, which will take several months again I guess…). The change is too slight. Even in the beta I saw people exploiting the new feinting. I think the way to go is to make feints defensive only, so you can’t attack right after performing one. You still can block/parry or just cancel your attack. But honestly, there is no real reason for offensive feints. They are just a huge exploit and won’t ever work like this. Also looking down should stop accelerating your attacks completely. There is another problem with the mechanics: You can just turn your mouse speed all the way up, and you’ll get no visible penalty on speed anymore while swinging. You can do a 360 turn while swinging, without any problems. Make it for all the mouse speeds the same. Even if it’d be a bit annoying for the players who are used to higher mouse speeds. It’s the only fair way, apart of disabling this speed-penalty completely, which would be horrible too.

    It’s not TBS (only), ruining the game-experience slowly to me. It’s the players, in my opinion mostly the high-ranks (Don’t feel concerned if you are one, and if you aren’t exploiting the game all the time). Of course, there are bugs. But these bugs are no problem compared to all these exploits.

    Whatever bothers me with the game, I keep on starting it just to play a few minutes. Then I get kicked from official servers, for absolutely no reason, get feint-spam-overhead-lookdown-facehugged until I ragequit etc. What I mean is: Even if the game is pretty hard to enjoy at the moment, it’s still not entierely bad. I wouldn’t write all that stuff if the game was just bad! Everything is fine, except of bugs and exploits. The core-mechanics, the graphics, the sounds, the maps etc. are all fine.

    Ok, you now may accuse me whining if you want, I don’t care if you do. Just do it in a non insulting way. I’m just saying that (and why) the game is not fun to me anymore. For all of the exploits I know of, there are possible fixes. Yes, those fixes will have downsides, but we have to accept them, as long as they don’t make the game luck-based. That’s what it is at the moment, and I hate it. That’s not the game I payed for and that’s not the game I played in the days of it’s release.



  • great opinion but we dont need it thread locked



  • In before locked.

    140 hours - total noob.

    But agree with everything you said, except the part about defensive feints, that would be awful.



  • Yes, the devs know what all the issues are, they are either unable or unwilling to fix their game.

    Feints make the ability to block almost irrelevant, swing delays/speedups make knowledge of weapon speeds and timings irrelevant. The high movement speeds of classes make weapon ranges and footwork unimportant. The addition of a chase mechanic means tactics that might work in a ffa 1v1 won’t work in a 1v1 when you’re on different teams.

    Lots of issues.

    Including the issue that no one knows if this is supposed to be a fun casual slasher or a highly competitive skill based game.



  • I can only play maybe 20 minutes at a time now before rage quitting after being facehugged or hit with an animation which is wrong and that is just unfucking fair.

    I am sure some clan people like using the glitches and exploits but really most people dont and I think that is very obvious because the steam stats when from 3000 peak on a weekday and 4500 on weekend to around 1700 and today a paltry 2200 peak today. That is around half the player base having left in the last 6 weeks.

    Why, we all know why, lack of bug fixes and changes to the very core mechanics that made the game fun.

    It is fun, in very small doses, but with the same old cheap tactics winning battles its not the game it used to be.


  • Global Moderator

    In the beginning most of the exploits would have been there. Just nobody found them yet.



  • Feintspamming is going to be patched out according to the devs.

    As for facehugging, I personally don’t have an issue with it. It’s disorienting for both sides (as long as the other player is also in 1st person).



  • What irritates me about Chivalry:

    Feins with one-handers

    Absence of killcam

    Ovearhead being the fastest attack for 2-handers therefore not possible to read

    Stabs clipping through the bodies so they can´t be blocked



  • Yup, I feel you.
    Everything changed with the patches. From one day to another. Game got broken, bugs came in, shit happened. With each patch it got worse. I feel you man, release version for example was golden, except some few bugs (yes a few and they werent game breaking)
    The worst of all, the devs dont even admit. They think all is cool and intented except “a few” bugs



  • @lemonater47:

    In the beginning most of the exploits would have been there. Just nobody found them yet.

    I agree, people love to blame the patches but really all the things that people point at (overhead lookdowns, feint spamming, facehugging etc.) were all in the original game. It just took some time for people to find the exploits. The only real exploitable bugs the patches introduced were the Alt-slashes being faster (now fixed), slash-feint-to-Alt-slash bug (now fixed) and certain weapons being buffed a little too much.

    In some ways I agree with the OP though. It’s the attitude of some high ranking players (who tend to be the people who are on servers the most) that ruin it for others IMO. I know of a few rank 40+ players whose play-style seems to simply revolve around getting the most kills the easiest way they can, which isn’t really helping the game. Especially in TO maps whilst you’ll see some high ranking people actually helping their teammates and focusing on the objective, others just kite around, killing the lowest ranked players, running away from the objective to get some cheap kills using all the exploits they can using the most OP weapons.

    These players usually play Defenders as it suits their playstyle, they don’t have to worry about the objective.

    I don’t mind look down overheads or mouse dragging in principle, but I don’t find the game that fun when a lot of the best players almost never block but instead kite, combo-feint, combo-feint-parry, run, rinse, repeat. All the while using exploits such as stabbing into feet, facehug stabs etc. Either that or just play MaA with a falchion or dane axe (actually post patch they seem not as bad but broadsword seems worse).

    I suppose when I think of medieval fighting I imagine a scene from a movie where a warrior faces his opponent and they fight, using skill to best each other. Not attacking then turning and running away. I know there is skill in kiting and things like combo-feints but it just seems like a totally aggressive playstyle is encouraged.

    I’m not saying that anyone doing this is bad or wrong, I just personally don’t enjoy it and I know others don’t as well and I get the feeling that a lot of new players get frustrated from these tactics.



  • @Dr:

    @lemonater47:

    In the beginning most of the exploits would have been there. Just nobody found them yet.

    I agree, people love to blame the patches but really all the things that people point at (overhead lookdowns, feint spamming, facehugging etc.) were all in the original game. It just took some time for people to find the exploits. The only real exploitable bugs the patches introduced were the Alt-slashes being faster (now fixed), slash-feint-to-Alt-slash bug (now fixed) and certain weapons being buffed a little too much.

    In some ways I agree with the OP though. It’s the attitude of some high ranking players (who tend to be the people who are on servers the most) that ruin it for others IMO. I know of a few rank 40+ players whose play-style seems to simply revolve around getting the most kills the easiest way they can, which isn’t really helping the game. Especially in TO maps whilst you’ll see some high ranking people actually helping their teammates and focusing on the objective, others just kite around, killing the lowest ranked players, running away from the objective to get some cheap kills using all the exploits they can using the most OP weapons.

    These players usually play Defenders as it suits their playstyle, they don’t have to worry about the objective.

    I don’t mind look down overheads or mouse dragging in principle, but I don’t find the game that fun when a lot of the best players almost never block but instead kite, combo-feint, combo-feint-parry, run, rinse, repeat. All the while using exploits such as stabbing into feet, facehug stabs etc. Either that or just play MaA with a falchion or dane axe (actually post patch they seem not as bad but broadsword seems worse).

    I suppose when I think of medieval fighting I imagine a scene from a movie where a warrior faces his opponent and they fight, using skill to best each other. Not attacking then turning and running away. I know there is skill in kiting and things like combo-feints but it just seems like a totally aggressive playstyle is encouraged.

    I’m not saying that anyone doing this is bad or wrong, I just personally don’t enjoy it and I know others don’t as well and I get the feeling that a lot of new players get frustrated from these tactics.

    Well said Zob, feel the same way. I approach the game as i would imagine a medieval combat would take place, only for the guy opposite to do some weird, glitchy shit with 360 turns and exploits. Just isnt turning out how I thought it would. Im a shit player at this game but i think mainly because i dont get the strange mechanics behind it.



  • Have to agree with you, OP. The game just isn’t fun anymore. All servers are full of exploiters who then defend their actions by saying “Learn to do it”. On release it was fun since everyone was “new” and it was a good substitute for AoC, but now it’s just “who knows the most exploits!”, so I just go back to AoC, which, while glitchy and having its own exploits, is not as bad as Chiv and is at least playable enough to be good skill-wise and not depend on crappy character animations. This game is just dead to me. The devs aren’t tackling these major bugs like they should be.

    Say what you will about War of the Roses, but at least its dev team is always looking at feedback and releasing patches a day or two after a bug introduces itself. They actively respond to posts on their forums and give updates on what to expect to be fixed, like with tomorrow’s patch on fixing bugs and glitches. These guys can pump out monthly updates and yet still make a relatively balanced and fixed game. And no, don’t say “TB is smaller and indie”. Yes they are, but so is Fatshark (they make the game, not Paradox, who only publish it, and Fatshark only has a good 10-20 people as well). I’m not trying to praise WotR, I just like they way the devs actually seem to care and try to keep the game going, which is what I wanted from Chiv, but only one CU in January that introduced more bugs that haven’t been fixed in almost four months, that’s just sad.



  • You make a lot of good points, all of which have been stated before but are still good points.

    @HammelGammel:

    The funny fact with this: I asked several 38-42 level players for a duel without lookdown-overheads, offensive feints and facehugs. I defeated all of them.

    On a side note, what did you do in these duels to get through your opponent’s guard? Every combat technique that I can think of is considered cheap by someone, which ones are valid to you?



  • @FrostFire626:

    You make a lot of good points, all of which have been stated before but are still good points.

    @HammelGammel:

    The funny fact with this: I asked several 38-42 level players for a duel without lookdown-overheads, offensive feints and facehugs. I defeated all of them.

    On a side note, what did you do in these duels to get through your opponent’s guard? Every combat technique that I can think of is considered cheap by someone, which ones are valid to you?

    Ranging (Staying at the maximum distance and just to hop in when your enemy swings. I’m pretty good at this, due to M&B. and still it is fair and easy to defend from :) ), good timing, ducking. There are so many techniques you can use apart of feints and other exploits. There are techniques, which are hard to learn, but funny (And still fair) to use. This is what this game should encourage you to do. And hell, even if your enemy blocks a bunch of hits. It’s so much nicer to hear the clink of steel in a tense fight than just end it in 3 exploitive, unfair swings. A fair duel is so much more satisfying. A fair duel is even funny if you die! I yesterday was on a classic duelserver with a guy called “Rage!”. It was just hilarious to fight with him. He was on a high rank and did not use any of the exploits. He still won most of the time, because he was really good. But I never felt bad to lose to him, it was just a lot of fun. If the game was always that funny, it would be just awesome :3



  • @JCash:

    Yes, the devs know what all the issues are, they are either unable or unwilling to fix their game.

    Feints make the ability to block almost irrelevant, swing delays/speedups make knowledge of weapon speeds and timings irrelevant. The high movement speeds of classes make weapon ranges and footwork unimportant. The addition of a chase mechanic means tactics that might work in a ffa 1v1 won’t work in a 1v1 when you’re on different teams.

    Lots of issues.

    Including the issue that no one knows if this is supposed to be a fun casual slasher or a highly competitive skill based game.

    I’d normally just say +1
    but in this case
    +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000



  • Well feints are a bit of an exploit, but i don’t mind because i always have a shield. I agree about the look-down overhead exploit, although I can only recall once where I was killed by it, I think it needs to be fixed as there is no good counter for it.
    I don’t agree with face hugging though, if a guy is face hugging you, it means you have lost the initiative. All you need to do is block your opponent’s attack however, and you will have the initiative back and you will also be in a good position to counter attack. In my experience, footwork and skill is all you need to stop face hugging. If you were to fight someone without trying to get past their guard by ‘facehugging’, you offensive capabilities would be greatly reduced and all fights would last longer in general.



  • @wyrda78:

    Well feints are a bit of an exploit

    Feints are a combat mechanic, not an exploit. Without them, most battles (with experienced players) would turn into eternal parry-fests aka boring.



  • @Nimmer:

    @wyrda78:

    Well feints are a bit of an exploit

    Feints are a combat mechanic, not an exploit. Without them, most battles (with experienced players) would turn into eternal parry-fests aka boring.

    A combat mechanic upon which many exploits are based.
    Slower paced duels are not boring to all players.

    The focus on 1v1 play is what irritates me about Chivalry. Even on team maps, there’s no reward for teamwork. (Especially with assists barely registering)



  • @Nimmer:

    @wyrda78:

    Well feints are a bit of an exploit

    Feints are a combat mechanic, not an exploit. Without them, most battles (with experienced players) would turn into eternal parry-fests aka boring.

    Use the entire description. “Feints are 'a luck based cointoss combat mechanic that makes the ability to parry irrelevant and heavily weights the game in favor of mindful attack spamming, because any block by any player of any skill level can be bypassed and a free hit landed by pressing Q, not an exploit.” etc.

    @FrostFire626:

    On a side note, what did you do in these duels to get through your opponent’s guard? Every combat technique that I can think of is considered cheap by someone, which ones are valid to you?

    You’re being unimaginative. You can kick, you can get into an attack timing and then vary it (ie Hit, hit hit, pause, hit) you can use a block to fake them out, so they block and you can hit, kicks, jumping (jump, hit when you come down, jump, hit when you come down, jump, land, swing)

    JErky body movements, spins, there are a ton of things.

    *most importantly, blocking is HARD. its actually difficult and without feints making it more difficult might be justified. But blocking is the least strong area of most, even ‘competitive’ players skill set. Feints de value blocking to a large extent, most of their knowledge/skill comes from knowing when to attack not when/how to block.

    And there is a difference between someone thinking something is cheap (i think the swingdrag mechanic is cheap) and a mechanic being based in luck.

    If you think including a luck based cointoss free hit mechanic is a good idea, that is cool. I’d call a luck based hit system in an otherwise EXTREMELY DIFFICULT entirely skill based game is a terrible idea. Objectively it lowers the skill ceiling. So I’d call it cheap as well.



  • ! @JCash:
    !
    !
    ! > @Nimmer:
    ! >
    ! > > @wyrda78:
    ! > >
    ! > > > Well feints are a bit of an exploit
    ! > >
    ! > > Feints are a combat mechanic, not an exploit. Without them, most battles (with experienced players) would turn into eternal parry-fests aka boring.
    ! >
    ! > Use the entire description. “Feints are 'a luck based cointoss combat mechanic that makes the ability to parry irrelevant and heavily weights the game in favor of mindful attack spamming, because any block by any player of any skill level can be bypassed and a free hit landed by pressing Q, not an exploit.” etc.
    ! >
    ! > @FrostFire626:
    ! >
    ! > > On a side note, what did you do in these duels to get through your opponent’s guard? Every combat technique that I can think of is considered cheap by someone, which ones are valid to you?
    ! >
    ! > You’re being unimaginative. You can kick, you can get into an attack timing and then vary it (ie Hit, hit hit, pause, hit) you can use a block to fake them out, so they block and you can hit, kicks, jumping (jump, hit when you come down, jump, hit when you come down, jump, land, swing)
    ! >
    ! > JErky body movements, spins, there are a ton of things.
    ! >
    ! > *most importantly, blocking is HARD. its actually difficult and without feints making it more difficult might be justified. But blocking is the least strong area of most, even ‘competitive’ players skill set. Feints de value blocking to a large extent, most of their knowledge/skill comes from knowing when to attack not when/how to block.
    ! >
    ! > And there is a difference between someone thinking something is cheap (i think the swingdrag mechanic is cheap) and a mechanic being based in luck.
    ! >
    ! > If you think including a luck based cointoss free hit mechanic is a good idea, that is cool. I’d call a luck based hit system in an otherwise EXTREMELY DIFFICULT entirely skill based game is a terrible idea. Objectively it lowers the skill ceiling. So I’d call it cheap as well.
    !
    !

    Well spoken! +1