[Pic] Spear Hitbox



  • It seems that the hitboxes for mainly spears (but other weapons too) while doing a reach attack (stab attack) is way too large.

    Take a look at this picture.
    A takes a stab at C and kills C.
    Even though B is clearly not between A and C, B also dies.

    I honestly don’t see any point in having such large hitboxes for spear reach attacks.

    Edit: This has happened several times. This is not a one-time occurrence. I only play on servers where I have less than 100 ping.

    It was a very controlled situation, neither my teammate or the enemy was moving around. They were looking at each other, waiting for the next to stike, so I just ran up and stabbed the enemy. Even though the spear was 5 cm (screen cm) away from the ally, he still died.

    I’ve had situations where I literally stab through an ally and kill the enemy behind, but this isn’t what that was. This was the spear hitting things it’s not supposed to hit.



  • Spears are actually very precise. Hitting two targets that far apart is not possible - at least not at the exact same time. I think something confusing happened in your example due to release time on stabs.

    Release time is the period after windup and before recovery during which your weapon can hit things. Normally it’s neatly spread out over the arcing of your swing, but on stabs it lasts longer than the animation suggests. The thrusting motion ends almost instantly, but the tracer lingers for a few fractions of a second, allowing you to still hit targets by moving the weapon into them during release as illustrated below:
    [image:10njd7y9]http://i.imgur.com/jNzmR6C.jpg[/image:10njd7y9]
    Even though A missed the actual stab, he dragged his spear into B before the release ended and dealt full damage. The poorly rendered brandistock is a prime offender for this as it has a very slow stab with a long release time, and it’s very much possible to hit more than one enemy standing apart with good footwork and weapon dragging.



  • Enable the hit tracers and try using a spear and then try to do some extreme mouse dragging with the spear stab. You can see that it can be quite devastating if you purposely miss for an instant with the spear and drag it back around the persons parry. This also works with people who are along side you who can be hit by your mouse drag.

    Mouse dragging with the spear is probably the most difficult weapon to mouse drag with however (balance reasons probably), other weapons are much easier.



  • I didn’t know about this. I love the Spear Vanguard, but it’s been yonks since I’ve played with it since I’ve been grinding all the other unlocks.

    However I’m mainly posting to say I love your diagrams. :D



  • @Torrenz:

    Spears are actually very precise. Hitting two targets that far apart is not possible - at least not at the exact same time. I think something confusing happened in your example due to release time on stabs.

    You’d think so but no! It was a very controlled situation, neither my teammate or the enemy was moving around. They were looking at each other, waiting for the next to stike, so I just ran up and stabbed the enemy. Even though the spear was 5 cm (screen cm) away from the ally, he still died.

    I’ve had situations where I literally stab through an ally and kill the enemy behind, but this isn’t what that was. This was the spear hitting things it’s not supposed to hit.



  • I see this happen frequently enough, or at least presume to see a similar case of what you are describing. Two possible reasons that can also intersect could (help to) explain what you have observed. Firstly there is the hit-dragging issue you have discussed, which I find is excessive for a number of weapons’ post-attack effect. The other possibility is that when someone attacks I believe what happens is that their arms and hands count as extended and this may also include parts of the weapon. At least that is what I think occurs at times when I accidentally connect with another player (or they connect with me), they are no where in range and yet for some reason I can either connect with or miss the intended targets whilst also connecting with an ally that would appear to be safely out of natural range (but could, for example, be attacking with a long-reaching weapon). I’m not sure on any of this but thought to outline what I have personally observed and assumed to be taking place.

    on a further related issue that is implicitly raised in this topic, I’m curious to know what is the basic reason or reasons for hit-dragging in the first place. Using my own experience, I’ve never been able to adjust to the ‘must block, cannot dodge’ thrust attacks. Well, some thrusts can be dodged and adroitly so which confers a very useful advantage when anticipated and appropriately strafed. But these are almost always short hand weapons, dodging long reach weapons typically only happens with specific circumstances in mind and usually because the player does not actively (and almost always knowingly) hit-drag their thrust. However, to further include my frame of experience, since learning to use the halberd with modest proficiency and to a similar extent the billhook, I’m left to wonder why hit-dragging is casually available for these weapons and specific attacks. I am not in anyway saying I’m sufficiently competent to outright claim that my knowledge and expertise ensures that I can wholly discriminate between missed and dodged attacks. Yet, on average, the majority of missed thrusts (should probably clarify now I don’t hit drag with thrust attacks) is not because they dodged but because I evidently misjudged the aim. In addition, when somewhere attempts to swivel or manoeuvre their position I can easily enough adjust during the animation period.

    on the other hand I do tend to hit-drag with overheads and almost invariably with horizontal swinging movements. Horizontal attacks are probably a non-issue since they are the type of attack which simulates the hit-dragging noticeable on thrusts anyway, whereas I generally think something is amiss with how overhead attacks can use hit-dragging after the weapon has descended. I’m not entirely certain what to assume here but wanted to include the point that I do have a habit to use hit-dragging here and it is something I would like to gradually remedy. I think it is a useful point to include because speaking for myself I do find overhead attacks to be awkward for precision purposes (halberd) and thus could understood why some would think this is a reason in itself, although I wouldn’t be quite so sure myself if this is a sufficient reason for the additional consequences these mechanics have.

    although this post has become excessively long, the gist is to inquire just why hit-dragging is in fact an integral feature of the game’s mechanics where as I’ve tentatively noted it seems unnecessary for a subset of attacks, in consequence limits manoeuvring, and is also related to a series of questionable glitches that bypass what would rightfully count as effective blocking or parrying.



  • @Yewthan:

    I see this happen frequently enough……

    I see you’ve taken the time to write an extremely lengthy and paragraph sparse post but I just… I’m sorry, I can’t be bothered to read all that. You should practice getting your point across using fewer words.



  • @Yewthan:

    although this post has become excessively long, the gist is to inquire just why hit-dragging is in fact an integral feature of the game’s mechanics where as I’ve tentatively noted it seems unnecessary for a subset of attacks, in consequence limits manoeuvring, and is also related to a series of questionable glitches that bypass what would rightfully count as effective blocking or parrying.

    Because it is crucial for the advertised “real-time combat”. It’s not what it could be at the moment with the presence of bugs and feints, but eventually it should be a great source of depth in fights - manipulating your swings to hit past an enemy’s parry, and learning how to parry them yourself.



  • I know I’ve managed to kill off-screen teammates with a forward stabs on several occasions, and not with just the spear. Other times I’ll do a stab perfectly centered on an enemy and easily within range, but it won’t hit him while his half-length weapon manages to stab me at the same distance.

    Hitboxes do seem to magically shrink and grow according to which gives me the most negative outcome lol. :P



  • What you may be experiencing is a swing drag, I have also seen this done. I have watched a skilled spear stab at the person to his right/left and carry it through to the person of to either side behind that target.



  • I have accidentally killed many teammates that were standing just to my right when I performed a thrust with my spear weapon. I believe it just has to do with the tracers moving as your weapon does which means it does jut out slightly to your right.


  • Global Moderator

    @Dr.Nick:

    I have accidentally killed many teammates that were standing just to my right when I performed a thrust with my spear weapon. I believe it just has to do with the tracers moving as your weapon does which means it does jut out slightly to your right.

    That’s really noticeable with javelins stabbing. As with the animation he doesn’t just thrust forward. He thrusts out and pulls in and stabs. Its an arch.



  • @Torrenz:

    Because it is crucial for the advertised “real-time combat”. It’s not what it could be at the moment with the presence of bugs and feints, but eventually it should be a great source of depth in fights - manipulating your swings to hit past an enemy’s parry, and learning how to parry them yourself.

    even if it is not yet fully developed swing manipulation is one of Chivalry’s deeper elements of gameplay. Although it goes without saying a few problems have emerged, noticeably how the overhead from the bardiche can exceed intended balance design. That would be the most conspicuous example but there are probably others warranting equal attention. There is also what I think is a limitation in delaying a swing in motion, a technique which can make the maul an unusually formidable weapon which utilises apparent drawbacks.

    all of the aforesaid aspects of control help to make the game interesting and for that matter enjoyable. Yet these same mechanics, apply to the real-time aspect of movements, whilst the problems I’ve wondered about with hit-dragging begin after the apparent apparent phase of an attack visibly missing. Making for an example where intentional game design contributes to the dissonance which many now fault as a constant distortion between expected interactions and what frequently eventuates. To be clear I wouldn’t say hit-dragging on thrusts is the essential problem with most issues, yet as an example of game design that intentionally produces disparity and what I have tentatively claimed to be an unnecessarily convenient adjustment post-attack I am not too sure what purpose it serves. Either way, for now it remains a relatively minor issue, if one specifically at all, although perhaps with other refinements this area of control could be further evaluated.