Classes that need rebalance



  • Hey, this topic was made before but here are my thoughts on what changes should be made.

    Archer: I am not experienced with archers at all and the only rebalance they need is weapon wise so I wont go into it since this is class topic only.

    MAA: Dodging, why can maa dodge out of stun? If someone picked shield and wants to block all the time, being kicked is the risk they take when picking a shield. I don’t understand why there is a safe option for them. I think maa should not be able to dodge out after they being kicked with their shield up.

    Vanguard: This class needs some good buff. This been talked about many times and there is a reason for why it’s been brought up many times. What vanguards have now? They die nearly as fast as maa, yes we can take in account resistance to pierce and that really they do have more hp than maa. Thats why we have to look at facts which is that vanguards do get killed in 2 hits by nearly everything. Here the list of that can one-two hit vanguards(not counting bows and throwing weapons).
    Two handed: All vanguard primarys, all knight primarys(for maybe some flails). So anything two handed will two hit vanguard, which is really kinda ok since if it was 3 hits they would not be that different from knights, except for warhammer, but thats another weapon related thought.
    One handed: All one handed primary from maa menu(except staff and third mace), daggers is possible 3-4 hits and very hard to block if they know what they are doing even a little, short sword(which is ridicilous). So this is when you should start wondering why is that nearly everything can two hit vanguards? Even weapons like norse sword and short sword is possible to twoshot vanguard with stanbs in the face, which is easy to do and harder to block. Why do vanguards take as many hits as maa when hit with every primary weapon with just few exceptions that can one hit maa? Should not vanguard be second highest def class? And of course we can start going on how it’s pierce dmg but really? short sword, 20 dmg two hits vanguard? if that was the case then zhei would one hit with a stab but that does not happen. I don’t think that this many weapons should two hit vanguard in one handed section. Maybe just weapons like dane axe, broad sword or falcion (pick one), flanged mace.
    These are my thoughts but then some might say, but vanguard have range and speed! On what I have to say, no they don’t. I don’t mean that literally but if applied in game I am sure it’s obvious that vanguards are not that much faster than a knight. Before anyone starts saying anything, I did see some great vanguards that can make use of range and their speed, but thats very few players that are very good but that tactic can be as well used with knight, and players that I saw do that well with vanguard still prefered playing knight and maa over vanguard. Thats another point, nearly every good player does play knight or maa for a reason, they are just that much better than vanguard. Then we have range, which is just badly done, cause any class can easily get into vanguards face, once again with few exceptions when vanguards are just very good which is not the case in this game. Trying to zone someone with longer weapon wont do much good for you since even knight can get in your face just after one swing. Two handed would work better if vanguards did have some actual speed advantages and weapons did not hit you with very tip, especially one handed, that trait should be for vanguards only to actually make range matter.
    So what are my ideas on making vanguard better? Vanguards don’t need more speed, cause knights need less speed but I will cover that when I get to the knight. Vanguards should be the only class that can hit you with very tip of their weapon with their primaries, by that I mean just make it so other weapons wont do dmg unless it actually reasonably hits you, and not when a tip barely touches you and you can actually see it right before you and wonder how did that even reach.
    Vnaguards could use a better kick. My suggestion is make kick possible to combo. I am not so sure on combo attacks after kicks but kicks as after an attack should combo so it can serve as range tool and not free hits.

    Knights: That class needs some good speed reduction. I often see knights sprint around the field almost as fast as vanguards or sprint into someones face while in wind up. That is very annoying that knights can do that. There is really no minuses on playing a knight now, they got hp, dmg, but suppose to be the slowest? Yet they are pretty fast. By speed reduction I mean only their sprint. Knights should not be able to move as fast while attacking. I find it ridiculous when I see knight sprint at someone while winding up a weapon from mile away and still gets in range in time to hit them. This should be vanguard technical, not knights. Knights as they are now pretty much don’t leave room for vanguards or any reason to play them for very few exceptions.

    So after the explanation the changes I suggest are:
    Archer - none.
    Maa - remove dodge out of stun.
    Vanguard - Make kick being able to combo after an attack and possibly make it so only vanguards primaries can hit with very tip.
    Knight - good speed debuff on sprint while attacking.

    I do hope dev look at this and take these thoughts in consideration. As for the rest of us, share what you think guys but don’t forget to keep being adults, if someone does not agree with something there is no reason for insults.



  • Archer: Agreed
    MAA: Agreed
    Vanguard: Making the kick being able to combo would be an interesting idea, but seems pretty useless since it does nearly no damage. But I agree that the Vanguard does need a slight buff of some sort (preferably something that replaces the sprint attack).
    Knight: I don’t think a debuff on sprint would be a good idea. I think Knight are fine. The only type of knight that annoys the hell out of me is the kind that aways sprints around while hitting various people. I think the whole idea of comboing while sprinting is kind of stupid but I guess that’s off-topic.



  • Archer: I think in the hands of good players archers are actually OP, basically because they’re melee weapons are so fast and good at getting around blocks that they’re too good in melee for a class that can one hit kill from a distance. However for most new players archer is a very hard class to get used to so it’s a bit difficult to balance.

    Maa: I dislike the shield hit stun mechanic anyway but I suppose if it’s in the game then MaA should not be able to dodge out of it.

    Vanguard: Maybe the charge thing needs to be reworked to actually be a useful ability, but I think that otherwise they’re fine. I certainly see a lot of players doing well with them. They have huge weapons, much bigger range than any other class.

    Knight: do NOT need a speed debuff IMO. They’re slow enough as it is, make them any slower and there is no way they could ever beat an experienced MaA or Vanguard who is kiting around. You could never reach them in time to hit them but the MaA can dodge in, attack and back out and the Vanguard had a longer weapon.



  • The kick being possible to throw in the combo is not for the dmg, it would be good for zoning. I suggested it only for that, not the dmg output. As for knights, I did not mean a sprint debuff, what I said is make them lose speed when they attack. If you look at knights, they can start wind when they are out of anyones reach and then get in your face to hit you. So in my opinion for a class that have most hp and does great dmg, that is a little too much for them to be this fast. Knights need a speed debuff when they attack so a knight with falcion wont be able to get in your face while starting attack where you can’t even reach him. Anyone saw knights run around with hammers and keep a good speed even when attacking? That should be only vanguards trait or what is the point of even having vanguards then? If knights can do nearly the same thing and take less dmg.


  • Global Moderator

    Most people don’t understand how to use a charge. A lot of people do it 1v1 or against someone who is looking at then by that never works.

    Its useful against groups, someone who’s not looking at you, people fighting your team or others and again archers who usually aren’t that good in melee. There are some crafty archers out there so you do need to be careful.

    One of the archers advantages in melee is that most people racially lower ranked players are overconfident web attack archers. They can be just as deadly an an MAA.

    With the archer backstab damage bonus they have the thrusting dagger can actually kill a vanguard in two hits with their backstab bonus. 3 hits with the other two. Though usually the vanguard turns around by then.

    The vanguard’s actually fine health wise. Their main strength is their great offensive power. Their main weakness is archers. And against a competent MAA in 1v1. As that’s their strength.

    Knights have the ability to just take damage. But even then they would die is 3 hits with most things. Two hits with some weapons. So buffing the vanguard to take an extra hit would pretty much defeat the purpose of a knight in the first place. Take the spear and brandistock for example. It would be similar to that. The brandistock is pretty useless with the spear being superior in all ways.


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