Smoke Pot Effectiveness.



  • Since the poor Archer balance topic got hi-jacked by smoke-pot discussion, I thought it would be a good idea to start a Smoke-pot dedicated balance and game mechanic topic.

    As it stands, I am pretty sure there is mixed feelings towards the effectiveness of smoke pots in combat. Please discuss below your thoughts on whether changes should be made or whether they are perfect the way they are, as well as offering scenarios where you think they have been most effective and least effective.

    As it stands for me, Smoke pots are very effective for Offence in TO, when buying precious seconds completing objectives like Ballistas and Trebuchets, but for defence and other game modes, I often find them not worth using.



  • Should get more smokepots, .5 second longer duration and they should have larger area of effect. Buff them.
    Redo poll to include number of pots.
    :D



  • Changed Poll, can select up to 2 if you wish.



  • I rarely play Vanguard and when I do I don’t use smoke pots, but when I see them on the battlefield I find them to be quite useful it deployed correctly. Very useful for TO, not so much for other game-modes. The key seems to be placement; throw them either close to your current position or lob them close to the archers.
    Sometimes it can be just as much a detriment to your team as an advantage though, for example I was playing Battlegrounds the other day as attackers moving the bomb cart and people we throwing smoke pots towards the archers which did shield us. However we then had to move through the smoke to get to the cart and I had no idea how many enemies were on the other side or where they were. Fighting started in the smoke and as everyone was blind it turned into a mess with people hitting team mates as much as each other.

    I don’t know if they need much of a buff, if they do get a buff I would increase duration or more pots.



  • I think radius needs to be improved so they aren’t overshadowed on maps with much larger open spaces. Most teams will only be bringing 1 vanguard at most in a 5v5 or even a 6v6 and 8v8.

    I think prep time, throwing speed, and recovery need to be improved on the smokes slightly though.



  • I don’t think anyone legit believes that smoke pots are balanced as other options. I say make it so that they don’t start fading for a while, make them last like ten seconds more, and during the last four seconds have them start to fade, they need to completely remove visibility instead of just be a minor annoyance. Also add one more pot, so one vanguard can keep several locations hidden. A radius increase might or might not be needed, for now i’d say it’s not needed if these other conditions are met.



  • I have no problems with the effectiveness of Smoke Pots.
    When used appropriately - they work fine. You are also given two.

    The problems only occur when not used effectively.

    The proper balance question to ask is, "When used appropriately - are they ineffective?"
    I believe the answer to be, “No. They are effective when used correctly. Just like any other weapon or tactic in this game.”

    We need to also ask about “why” the smoke pots were put into the game. What is their purpose?
    I believe their PRIMARY purpose was to cover for the Vans vulnerability to Archers.
    Any Team-Tactical benefits are a minor bonuses.
    If this primary purpose is correct, has it been achieved? I believe, “Yes it has, especially with two smoke pots in inventory, Van has sufficient tools available to be able to get into an engaging position without being too vulnerable.”

    Variables to be concerned about…
    1. Graphic Fidelity. Would turning down gfx settings reduce the effectiveness of smoke?
    2. Spam. Increasing number of smoke pots or duration could lead to ‘abuse’. A Server filled with a majority of Vans spamming smoke could cause performance issues.



  • I don’t think they’re as effective as they should be. The coverage isn’t really big enough. Archers can just waddle over 5 feet and have a line of sight different enough to negate the smoke screen.



  • @dudeface:

    I don’t think they’re as effective as they should be. The coverage isn’t really big enough. Archers can just waddle over 5 feet and have a line of sight different enough to negate the smoke screen.

    I believe 2 pots of smoke is MORE than enough to off-set an archer. And I don’t believe smoke should completely negate archers either. They should simply give the Van SOME defense against archers. Not a complete Rock beats Scissors.
    Archers still need to pose a threat. Otherwise Archers will complain of being underbalanced.

    The same way shields offer defense against arrows. But they have many drawbacks too.



  • I love love love smoke pots… I say buff the hell out of them just because I am biased.



  • @g0dLyk:

    @dudeface:

    I don’t think they’re as effective as they should be. The coverage isn’t really big enough. Archers can just waddle over 5 feet and have a line of sight different enough to negate the smoke screen.

    I believe 2 pots of smoke is MORE than enough to off-set an archer. And I don’t believe smoke should completely negate archers either. They should simply give the Van SOME defense against archers. Not a complete Rock beats Scissors.
    Archers still need to pose a threat. Otherwise Archers will complain of being underbalanced.

    The same way shields offer defense against arrows. But they have many drawbacks too.

    Archers still need a pose a threat? I don’t think there should be any worry about that not happening. :|

    2 smoke is more than enough to offset 1 archer once, but after that you’re shit outta luck. If each smoke was a bit better you would have a chance to use it twice, but more often than not you have to use both your smokes at once.



  • depends on the map too. Smoke is really effective in a map like arena or argons wall when used correctly.



  • The title of this thread confused me at first, I thought it was about the effectiveness of smoking pot.

    Which, I’ll have you know I’m experienced in. I’ve shot up at least 15 marijuana’s today and I think I’m really tripping hard.



  • @Substance:

    The title of this thread confused me at first, I thought it was about the effectiveness of smoking pot.

    Which, I’ll have you know I’m experienced in. I’ve shot up at least 15 marijuana’s today and I think I’m really tripping hard.

    Well, in your expert opinion, should the effectiveness of smoking pot be increased by having a longer duration? A larger area of affect? Or just simply injecting more marijuana’s? :P



  • @jrmftw:

    Or just simply injecting more marijuana’s? :P

    Anyone running through the smoke should have the tavern mead effect.



  • Nah it should be a hallucinogenic. You should just have visions of people swinging their sword at you when really they’re returning to idle.



  • @dudeface:

    Nah it should be a hallucinogenic. You should just have visions of people swinging their sword at you when really they’re returning to idle.

    So, like you just downloaded a new patch, then? Good idea!



  • @dudeface:

    Nah it should be a hallucinogenic. You should just have visions of people swinging their sword at you when really they’re returning to idle.

    Can we get this as a new option in the poll?



  • @gregcau:

    @jrmftw:

    Or just simply injecting more marijuana’s? :P

    Anyone running through the smoke should have the tavern mead effect.

    @dudeface:

    Nah it should be a hallucinogenic. You should just have visions of people swinging their sword at you when really they’re returning to idle.

    Maybe adding some kind of visual effect could be a good way of turning a very passive weapon into an active weapon? Might get frustrating on your own team all the time though :/
    Would it be better to make smoke slightly more transparent when within the smoke to still allow some visibility, at least silhouettes, but more opaque looking into the smoke from outside? You know - kinda like real life?

    EDIT: Sick of losing all poll results every time I add another option! :x sorry guys.



  • I would like it if mine didn’t glitch out and sink into the ground half the time I toss 'em. We don’t need more, we just need them to work properly. That having been said, they could use a slight duration buff.

    Wouldn’t mind having an increased smoke radius, too, though that’s starting to sound a little greedy.


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