Parry having automatical short-range pommel-bash



  • There has been a talk about adding a fast short range kick that would allow people to regain some distance. Other propositions ranged from pommel bash to utter stupidities like headbutts. I practice some historical fencing with sabre and during my last training I got an idea (tremble and quake)…

    Right now, the facehugging problem still does not seem to be solved yet but I believe that the strange attacks bypassing parries and shields have been reduced mostly to one situation - i.e. when the enemy is close, a little to the side and not facing his opponent, so what actually happens is that his arms clip through the parry or a shield and carry the weapon where it should not be able to get. This is very couter-intuitive and goes totally against the idea of fencing where parries against the enemy’s hand are a legitimate, or even a preferable way of defense (because not only you stop the attack but also you wound the enemy on his sword hand).

    Of course, this idea is not very viable in the game, because for a parry, there is only one position of the blade and it would be very counter-intuitive if the enemy got hurt just by attacking, especially when the blade aims the other way, only because there are some invisible parry hitboxes his hand tried to go through.

    However, I think it still should not be a generally very good idea to get into the kissing range with an enemy, and my proposal would be that a parry could have an automatic, short range “pommel bash” on activation. If the enemy attacks you from a normal distance, and you parry, nothing really changes… blades clash as usual. However if the enemy is in the kissing range and has a much faster weapon, you are in a very difficult position, because the hands clip strangely through the parries, the attacks are faster than usual and defense against 1H feints is still quite a difficult task. And you cannot attack because it’s an opening for the faster weapon. So a parry could knock the enemy back a little bit because that’s is exactly what you would do IRL - put the blade between you and the enemy so that they can’t hit you easily, and smash them with the pommel in the face. Of course both sides can do that but here with no damage and a knockback, it would not necessarily be advantageous for both…

    Another option is to make the pommel bash activated with another parry click during an active parry - i.e. opponent attacks, you parry, you see the opponent feinted but your parry is still active, so you activate pommel bash and if he is close enough it will get him.



  • love it



  • What are you talking about. A headbut would be fucking awesome.



  • Wouldn’t work the way you suggest it. Problems:
    -parry is instant, instant damage is bad
    -after pommel bashing your enemy he would get a free hit on you if he manages to attack you in the next 0.8 s (even a maul could get a lookdown overhead in that time). You can’t have it stun either, as instant stun is “a bit” op^^
    -everytime a shortranged facehug weapon attacks you, you could flinch him with your parry. There would be absolutely no counter to this, because you are doing an offensive maneuver while parrying at the same time

    I’m sorry this wouldn’t work. I don’t like facehugs and like the addition of an pommelstrike/interupt maneuver, but this is not the way to implement it.



  • @Falc:

    Wouldn’t work the way you suggest it. Problems:
    -parry is instant, instant damage is bad

    No, no damage (I know it does not feel logical nor realistic… pommel bashes are quite brutal IRL). Just a knockback and a little stagger.
    And as I said, alternative variant would be:
    First RMB click - parry
    Second RMB click - pommel bash

    -after pommel bashing your enemy he would get a free hit on you if he manages to attack you in the next 0.8 s (even a maul could get a lookdown overhead in that time). You can’t have it stun either, as instant stun is “a bit” op^^

    Not sure about that, depends on the time of the stagger and the length of the knockback. And who’s to say that the pommel bash would not be combo-able with for example overhead? It all depends on the specific settings.

    -everytime a shortranged facehug weapon attacks you, you could flinch him with your parry. There would be absolutely no counter to this, because you are doing an offensive maneuver while parrying at the same time

    Only daggers would be affected by that I believe… that’s why you don’t use them in a battle against a zweihander:))) But seriously, the timings of the bash could be set in a way that it would not work against daggers for example.



  • Your idea definitely needs more polishing….you should have included that in your initial post.

    Combos would work to circumvent one problem, but you still can’t have parry also being an offensive maneuver. It is already to strong right now(the very reason why we have the feint issues right, with that change parry would even counter feint in short range…that’s just wrong) buffing parry is the wrong way to go.

    We need a fast, short ranged interupt maneuver. A pommel bash would be fitting. But in no way should it be a parry at the same time or even before the pommel bash.



  • Okay, this idea is good, it just needs one change.

    I believe it would be better if the pommel bash came after the parry; so you would RMB to parry, the attack would strike it and you would press your bash button to execute this pommel bash. This pommel bash would do no damage, but would knock them back and stun them momentarily.



  • @Falc:

    Your idea definitely needs more polishing….you should have included that in your initial post.

    Of course it needs more polishing! That’s what this topic is for!

    (the very reason why we have the feint issues right, with that change parry would even counter feint in short range….that’s just wrong)

    Now this is a thing I don’t agree with. I mean… yeah, you’re definitely right, but I don’t think it would be wrong. The pommel bash from parry would have to have very short reach, just enough to pacify facehuggers exploiting (yes, exploiting) the fact that arms clip through parry hitboxes. No more.

    @Falc:

    We need a fast, short ranged interupt maneuver. A pommel bash would be fitting. But in no way should it be a parry at the same time or even before the pommel bash.

    Ok, I agree that automatic bash from parry may be overmuch but as a special very short range attack from parry (which would cancel the parry state and there should be no problem in making it punishable on a miss for example by taking some time to return into neutral guard) it could be viable.

    Moreover it would be very fitting for the pommel bash to come from a parry because that’s basically the way it’s done IRL - you shorten the distance to the enemy under the protection of your weapon and then smash his face.



  • You can’t combine parry with an offensive maneuver in this game. It would be sooo horrible for gameplay. You know if it were actually that way, people would actually try to facehug the enemy to hit him with that uncounterable pommelbashparry. Just because it works in reality doesn’t mean it has to in a videogame. And guess who could use it the best: the facehug loving MaA. Dodge in, instant invulnerable stun. You have to really consider what your change can do and where it will be the most useful/breaking gameplay.

    Enemy about to attack you and you think he could feint? No problem just facehug him and pommelbashparry. Whatever he does you have the advantage now.

    You have to let go that idea. Don’t superbuff parry by giving it an offensive application. Cancelable parries are just as bad. Don’t touch parry. It has to be another maneuver.



  • @dudeface:

    What are you talking about. A headbut would be fucking awesome.

    I literally read the OP to where it said about a headbutt being ridiculous n stopped RIGHT THERE.

    Anyone who thinks a headbutt wouldnt be awesome is clearly secretly a damp cabbage.



  • I think this is a good idea. Some people are getting a little excited about change, but if rather than just giving a knee jerk reaction people would think about how this could work then it could be good.

    For example, if you consider the time delay from the old fast kick the recovery from that maneuver was quite long. This kind of delay after a successful pommel-bash would be appropriate. However, it should do next to no damage as per the old fast kick and have a very short range.

    As for headbutt yes it would look cool, but it wouldn’t work so well on uneven terrain unless the animation aimed the headbutt at chest height. Then at least it’d be roughly the same height as a pommel bash.
    @Falc:

    You can’t combine parry with an offensive maneuver in this game. It would be sooo horrible for gameplay. You know if it were actually that way, people would actually try to facehug the enemy to hit him with that uncounterable pommelbashparry. Just because it works in reality doesn’t mean it has to in a videogame. And guess who could use it the best: the facehug loving MaA. Dodge in, instant invulnerable stun. You have to really consider what your change can do and where it will be the most useful/breaking gameplay.

    Enemy about to attack you and you think he could feint? No problem just facehug him and pommelbashparry. Whatever he does you have the advantage now.

    You have to let go that idea. Don’t superbuff parry by giving it an offensive application. Cancelable parries are just as bad. Don’t touch parry. It has to be another maneuver.

    I definitely see what you’re saying and it would be cause for concern if implemented incorrectly, but MAA could have done this with the old fast kick. They can’t leap and parry simultaneously can they? So if they do leap in then they get as they come into range. If they don’t get hit then why wouldn’t they go straight for a hit instead of wasting stamina on a pommel-bash(fast kick).



  • @giantyak:

    I definitely see what you’re saying and it would be cause for concern if implemented incorrectly, but MAA could have done this with the old fast kick. They can’t leap and parry simultaneously can they? So if they do leap in then they get as they come into range. If they don’t get hit then why wouldn’t they go straight for a hit instead of wasting stamina on a pommel-bash(fast kick).

    That is the very reason why i say it should be a separate interupt maneuver(like the old fast kick). Because you could counter it. You can’t counter a kick and a parry at the same time. So they may not be one maneuver. Fast interupt? fine. Fast interupt while parrying at the same time? nononoNO.