New Archer Weapon



  • The hand cannon or arquebus/early matchlock would be a great addition after the crossbows for the archer. I know a one hit kill sounds a bit far-fetched and unrealistic or unfun, however, a small dagger penetrating full plate armor doesn’t sound very realistic either. Also a man-at-arms was most likely a heavily armored cavalryman, not a light, leather-lamellar armored foot soldier. Some may argue of Chivalry’s time period and say that it was based in the 12-1300s, but with the knights’ plate armor and weapons such as the zweihander I think differently. Full plate armor wasn’t in use in full motion until the mid to late 1300s, Europe had adopted the hand cannon by then. I think Chivalry’s time period is roughly 14-1500s, even if the crusader looking vanguard armor is around. Therefore, an arquebus with a very slow reload and somewhat accurate would prove a decent weapon for the last tier weapon in the crossbow line. The archer could be a very inexperienced soldier in reloading the arquebus/hand cannon thus taking up to 20-30 seconds to reload due to the completely new weapon design; which is how long an inexperienced musketeer took to reload.


  • Global Moderator

    The earliest of those weapons were very useless compared to other weapons at the time. Ony useful I groups o soldiers and even then the effective range was
    Less than 20m. The shot simply didn’t go straight and they took years to reload.

    Still If it did hit a round hitting chain would cause it to explode inside the victims causing really large fatal wounds. Even going through several layers of armour plate chain and leather it still managed to get in the body. Or at least wind the victim and break bones.

    The weapon did take a rediculously long time to releas and its easyto get wrong. As I remember there was something like 17 steps or something. And the early ones had stands as they used quite a bit of gunpowder and the guns were in no way designed to counter recoil. Much of the net force is backwards.

    And the knights don’t wear plate armour. Agathian knight only has plates on his arms and legs which is late 1200s. He’s wearing a chainmail hauberk with a think leather jerkin underneath that. The mason knight is wearing a leather coat of plates on his cheats. No full plate armour.



  • But what of the zweihander? The hand cannon was easy to reload like any other muzzle loader, just put the powder down the barrel and load a shot and put powder in the pan. It took years to train an archer from childhood and a musketeer took a few months to master fast reloading. The reload disadvantage either way also makes it more balanced, either way a tiny dagger penetrating even chainmail armor proves this game somewhat unrealistic, especially if it takes only 4 slices that are not perfectly aimed at the weak spots such as the groin or underarms. Most of the slashes go crazy as the players jump around to try to get any environmental advantage instead of cautiously aimed slashes. Partial plate was mostly developed even in the 1350s, the hand cannon was in use back then maybe not extensively but what archer uses a slingshot from 4000 BC and penetrates even a coat of plates which was what was used back in the 1200s. Also accuracy does not matter much as most maps in Chivalry are usually like no more than 50 yards apart, that was the effective accuracy of the weapon anyway. The 17 steps you speak of are when the soldiers are lined up and use marches, they were mostly used when the matchlock was created for effective accuracy with fire by rank.


  • Global Moderator

    @owningu:

    But what of the zweihander? The hand cannon was easy to reload like any other muzzle loader, just put the powder down the barrel and load a shot and put powder in the pan. It took years to train an archer from childhood and a musketeer took a few months to master fast reloading. The reload disadvantage either way also makes it more balanced, either way a tiny dagger penetrating even chainmail armor proves this game somewhat unrealistic, especially if it takes only 4 slices that are not perfectly aimed at the weak spots such as the groin or underarms. Most of the slashes go crazy as the players jump around to try to get any environmental advantage instead of cautiously aimed slashes. Partial plate was mostly developed even in the 1350s, the hand cannon was in use back then maybe not extensively but what archer uses a slingshot from 4000 BC and penetrates even a coat of plates which was what was used back in the 1200s. Also accuracy does not matter much as most maps in Chivalry are usually like no more than 50 yards apart, that was the effective accuracy of the weapon anyway. The 17 steps you speak of are when the soldiers are lined up and use marches, they were mostly used when the matchlock was created for effective accuracy with fire by rank.

    They had plate armour in 350BC.

    And I was way off wih the number of steps to load and fire. Yes just load and fire. 48 steps. Though they can be narrowed down. But a bow only takes about 3 steps and in reality bows can have a fire Rate of 45RPM.

    Still the hand cannon. No way to aim it properly and was likely to explode in your face. Many bad shorter barrels so they could be loaded faster but that made them more inaccurate they had a slower muzzle velocity.

    The arquebus came in the 14th century and it actually looked like a gun. It had a way to aim and steady yourself but it took longer to reload.

    They both involve lighting a rope and touching a touch whole. Hand cannons didn’t have a trigger and some models of arquebus didn’t either.

    The hard part was lighting the match. Which was a rope.you hand to get out some flint and scrape it arcoss something to set the match alight. Then You have to keep any embers from falling on your powder while you do the other steps.

    With the arquebus you attach the match to an arm which is either released by a trigger or pushed by your hand. The second way often resulted in burnt hands when they were stressed and not focusing. With the hand cannon you shove the match into a hole to it it the powder. Hoping it didn’t explode the whole weapon. Some hand cannon tactics involved a smaller hand cannon with a shorter barrels where the user lies on the ground and has it tilted up slightly. This vastly increased load times but it was more inaccurate and the force of the blast varied greatly as a ramrod was not used push something down the barrel to keep the powder and shot in the gun.

    And the sling was used up to the rise of firearms. The sling could peirce plate armour. That was shown against the Romans.

    The thing it it would be a really hard weapon To balance. As it could easily oneshot any class.



  • Although something like this would be cool, I think it won’t fit in Chivalry as it is now. Maybe if there’s a DLC where they fight that faction to the south and there’s a bunch of new maps, weapons, armours and functions where hand gonnes would be viable (in sieges/wall defences, a new class to use it etc.) Then they could add something like this, perhaps:

    [image:19nuo59i]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-y7G7QyuHETw/TmsyaRpLblI/AAAAAAAAAEM/7V0dYIsNnXw/s1600/Hussite%2BHandgunner.jpg[/image:19nuo59i]
    [image:19nuo59i]http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/7982/hussitehandcannoneersangx8.jpg[/image:19nuo59i]
    [image:19nuo59i]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Miscellaneous/McBride Newark and Others/WA_31.jpg[/image:19nuo59i]
    [image:19nuo59i]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a209/Spongthe1st/MAA_166_E.jpg[/image:19nuo59i]



  • I’m pretty sure this idea was my first post, but then I realised how unbalanced it would be.



  • It isn’t really unbalanced, A slingshot having more chance of penetrating plate armor of the 13-1400s more than a longbow with bodkin arrows? http://www.isegoria.net/2011/08/longbow-vs-armor/
    That link shows several types of arrows including needle bodkin that barely penetrated plate which was barely harmful, this shows that a slingshot could do much less than a longbow that was probably 100lbs? The steps needed to fire were only for the marching and lining up to “give fire.” This is a very good link demonstrating the ease of firing the hand cannon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZJ88UlIy-U
    Much of the Roman plate armor was made either of bronze or iron, not steel. Notice in the picture above showing soldiers roughly in the 12-1400s because of chainmail and kettle helmets. Slingshots were rarely used among the archers whom took decades to train a longbow. I’m sure a 100lb longbow could penetrate much more than a slingshot and the longbow capabilities showed above. To balance the hand cannon they could make shields to deflect bullets, many shields were used back then to deflect hand cannon bullets. Some thick plate armor could be penetrated, however, much of the bullet impact and penetration would be hampered when trying to reach the skin and creating less harm to the knight. Therefore, it could take two shots to kill a knight. Also considering a certain crossbow can also do one hit kills and almost kill a knight as well.


  • Global Moderator

    @owningu:

    It isn’t really unbalanced, A slingshot having more chance of penetrating plate armor of the 13-1400s more than a longbow with bodkin arrows? http://www.isegoria.net/2011/08/longbow-vs-armor/
    That link shows several types of arrows including needle bodkin that barely penetrated plate which was barely harmful, this shows that a slingshot could do much less than a longbow that was probably 100lbs? The steps needed to fire were only for the marching and lining up to “give fire.” This is a very good link demonstrating the ease of firing the hand cannon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZJ88UlIy-U
    Much of the Roman plate armor was made either of bronze or iron, not steel. Notice in the picture above showing soldiers roughly in the 12-1400s because of chainmail and kettle helmets. Slingshots were rarely used among the archers whom took decades to train a longbow. I’m sure a 100lb longbow could penetrate much more than a slingshot and the longbow capabilities showed above. To balance the hand cannon they could make shields to deflect bullets, many shields were used back then to deflect hand cannon bullets. Some thick plate armor could be penetrated, however, much of the bullet impact and penetration would be hampered when trying to reach the skin and creating less harm to the knight. Therefore, it could take two shots to kill a knight. Also considering a certain crossbow can also do one hit kills and almost kill a knight as well.

    You can’t deflect a metal ball traveling at 75-250 metres per second. Especially as hand cannons at the time were .40 cal. That’s the smaller models. Most were over .50 cal.

    A hand cannon was one of the simpler fire arms to fire. An arquebus. Is far mlre complicated but less can go wrong and it was more accurate and you could aim it better. And it was less likely to explode in your face. Its successor the matchlock musket takes the longest amount of time to load. And when you fire two different sets of powder go off, meaning when you pull the trigger it actually takes half a second for the thing to fire the bullet. Though then we are getting far too late.

    Hand cannons were huge inaccurate things to scare the Crap out of anyone on the business end. Very inaccurate but when it hits your dead no matter what. It goes through plate metal and all the shields in the game are wooden. Even if they were metal they would still penatrate just not doing that min damage once through the sheild.



  • A weapon like that is a terrible idea for this kind of game. A musket-type weapon would have to be hitscan and at that point you might as well give the archer a sniper rifle. They would have to make it incredibly inaccurate to make it balanced, which would just leave it completely up to random chance to hit people, making it boring for the people using it as they’re standing around for 20-30 seconds reloading after their shot randomly goes of target. And it would be incredibly frustrating to suddenly die randomly from a gunshot.

    The last thing this game needs is more encouragement for people to stay as far away as possible from combat and just snipe.



  • A crossbow can kill in one or two hits, the hand cannon was not as arduous to use and it was actually efficient, like I said earlier most maps in Chivalry are very small sized. The hand cannon’s attributes would be average accuracy (for the map-size of the maps), very slow reload (slower than the crank crossbow) and high damage. It’s kinda similar to a zweihander or the massive sledgehammer/maul thing where it has slow reload (after previous attack) average range, and highest damage. Also what’s fun about getting charged at from all sides and getting destroyed? This game isn’t much about skill like Warband, but about mindlessly charging without much skill which is what sniping is, no skill. Adding something that has no skill to something that already has low skill is nothing bad imho.



  • Lol @ People saying the Arquebus was bad. It could reach up to 100 m with the shot and still be deadly, and the bullets could weigh up to +50 grams.

    If you were hit by one of the bullets, you died. You simply died. Your bones became fractured and exploded and you most of the time died from shock. They were extensively used in the end of the 15th century and beginning of the 16th century to win against the Aztec and Inca indians.

    Fuck the timeline balance arguement. We have Brandistock which were invented in the 16th century and Zweihanders from the 14th century and slings from 1000 B.C. Just implent it, please. But be careful with the balance.