A simple change that would "fix" some issues?



  • As far as I know the most thing people cry about are:
    a) getting killed
    b) Feints/ Feint spamming
    c) Dodges
    d) Combo spamming
    e) Turtling (to a lesser extent)

    While the first one can only be fixed by growing up (the good thing: most people eventually grow up) the other four seem to cause a lot of frustration. Maybe this can be reduced by reverting a single change introduced with the Content Update:

    • Regain 30 stamina on special dazed [when blocking out of stamina]

    Thats bascially an increase in cost for all of these tactics without nerfing them directly. Why? Because being out of stamina would be really bad news so you really have to decide if you want to burn it in order to get an advantage.



  • You have it backwards. The first one is part of the game and can’t be solved. The remaining 4 are solved by growing up.



  • @dudeface:

    You have it backwards. The first one is part of the game and can’t be solved. The remaining 4 are solved by growing up.

    I don’t agree.



  • Then I am afraid we will have to fight to the death.



  • @dudeface:

    Then I am afraid we will have to fight to the death.

    But without feints :P

    AGATHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!



  • I don’t like the 30 stamina gain either… it’s basically a large nerf on slower weapons that count partially on depleting enemy’s stamina.



  • Before CU1 you could parry infinitely when out of stamina because there was no special daze, so this was implemented to make running out of stamina dangerous (you’re stunned and take a free hit) Without the stamina restore on special daze, however, you’d just be stunned-hit-stunned-hit until you died. Might as well just kill players as soon as they run out of stamina in that case.



  • I think the main problem is that crouch regens your stamina at a very fast rate, even while moving in a crouch position.

    I would have no issue with feint spamming and such if it meant that the person doing it would be drained of stamina and have to face the consequences/adapt to it.



  • The 30 stamina gain seems to generous when very few weapons actually get a free hit unless the attacker has high ping

    Unless surrounded or in a 1v1 against a fast weapon, being stunned isn’t too significant, in fact it’s pretty desired to get stunned when not in one of those situations, as it’s the fastest way to regain stamina



  • @Josh:

    The 30 stamina gain seems to generous when very few weapons actually get a free hit unless the attacker has high ping

    Unless surrounded or in a 1v1 against a fast weapon, being stunned isn’t too significant, in fact it’s pretty desired to get stunned when not in one of those situations, as it’s the fastest way to regain stamina

    The large majority of weapons can strike within the stun duration; AFAIK only the zwei and maul have a reasonable chance of being blocked in time, and even so the chance is just about dashed with a look-down overhead.

    But that’s beside the point. Even if you revert that update, so what? You’ll only see its fruits IF you manage to stun your opponent, and given that a lot of engagements last on average ~5 seconds, stunning your opponent is pretty rare. And how will that reduce the occurrence of the “complaints” you mentioned? You’ll still have to survive a full course meal of exploits/feints/bullshit before getting close to draining your opponent’s stamina.

    The problem is not with stamina. Its with the exploits/feinting/bullshit themselves. I don’t believe stamina will be a cure-all solution.



  • @Josh:

    The 30 stamina gain seems to generous when very few weapons actually get a free hit unless the attacker has high ping

    Unless surrounded or in a 1v1 against a fast weapon, being stunned isn’t too significant, in fact it’s pretty desired to get stunned when not in one of those situations, as it’s the fastest way to regain stamina

    this allows you to get out of your situation on defense and even take the advantage if you’re good enough. the stamina you regain allows you to parry-counter and then even do combo-feint before losing all your stamina again. It allows the person on defense a last ditch effort to come back from a losing situation. The attacker still had his advantage to get a free hit, or feint if he’s too late at getting it. However this gives the person on the defensive a chance to stay in the fight if he can play his cards right.



  • It wont fix the problems of this game, but yeah it needs to come back.
    The stamina gift is bs.
    You were reckless with your stamina? You should pay the price.



  • @Josh:

    The 30 stamina gain seems to generous when very few weapons actually get a free hit unless the attacker has high ping

    Unless surrounded or in a 1v1 against a fast weapon, being stunned isn’t too significant, in fact it’s pretty desired to get stunned when not in one of those situations, as it’s the fastest way to regain stamina

    the stun should definitely be longer. You can’t even get a hit with a maul right now. It should end when you take damage though.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    @Josh:

    The 30 stamina gain seems to generous when very few weapons actually get a free hit unless the attacker has high ping

    Unless surrounded or in a 1v1 against a fast weapon, being stunned isn’t too significant, in fact it’s pretty desired to get stunned when not in one of those situations, as it’s the fastest way to regain stamina

    this allows you to get out of your situation on defense and even take the advantage if you’re good enough. the stamina you regain allows you to parry-counter and then even do combo-feint before losing all your stamina again. It allows the person on defense a last ditch effort to come back from a losing situation. The attacker still had his advantage to get a free hit, or feint if he’s too late at getting it. However this gives the person on the defensive a chance to stay in the fight if he can play his cards right.

    I agree with you. It can help people who lose stamina because they are stupid and waste it, but sometimes I do run out of stamina when fighting multiple people in a row. This isn’t my fault, and if the skill gap is big enough then there’s no reason why they should get a free kill.

    The mechanic is there so that a person cannot turtle. If you can anticipate them running low on stamina then you will kill them. Even if they do get the block you still should have an advantage. There’s no reason you should get a free kill because you caught someone with low stamina.



  • @trickshot:

    It wont fix the problems of this game, but yeah it needs to come back.
    The stamina gift is bs.
    You were reckless with your stamina? You should pay the price.

    well, what happened before when there wasn’t this stamina gain? no need for me to explain… you watch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysyIEAHfsM&t=5m41s

    ha this is a joke… but yeah multiple enemies would give defender no chance to recover. And against less skilled opponents, not saying BB is here… but there would be a constant parry stun over and over and over like you see in the video… i suppose until attacker decides to feint ya. In duels, this would be a nightmare. If you’ve ever used a daggar also, you get infinitely stam locked once you lose it, get stunned, and keep parrying. With daggars, you don’t get the 30 or w/e stamina that you do with other weapons.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    well, what happened before when there wasn’t this stamina gain? no need for me to explain… you watch.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysyIEAHfsM&t=5m41s

    The problem with this particular clip was not the missing stamina regain but the absence of “Special Dazed”. It has as much to do with the change discussed here as the Heavy Flail. And you can still do this if your opponent uses a slow weapon (though technically* it should be possible to hit a special dazed enemy with every weapon if you attack as soon as possible).

    Stamina regain works the other way around: The defender gets an advantage in a certain way similar to the one you can see in the clip.

    *Spreadsheet: Parry+Special Dazed > Parried+Windup for all melee attacks



  • read the paragraph just under the video link…

    see where i said ha this is a joke… but then go on to talk about multiple enemies etc?

    Stop responding out of context to one thing people say, and instead undertand the rest and read the entire post if you are going to respond to it, then respond to it fully.

    also… before you get a special daze on someone, their character starts to breathe heavy, which is an indication that they are running low on stamina. You have to be able to capitalize, cause the stamina stun, and get your free hit on them or the kill hit whatever it may be. If they are able to parry you because you didn’t capitalize on your opportunity, and the warning signs… then it’s your fault. The stamina gain rewards the defensive player for being able to get out of his daze and still parry afterward. If he then has no stamina and you are in his face… like i said he would keep getting stamina dazed and eventually die. with no opportunity to turn the fight back around… because remember, parrying takes stamina, if he never gets any back, you just keep attacking, he has to parry or get hit… he stamina locks again, rinse and repeat. Therefore, like i said, the defender would have no opportunity to turn the fight back in his favor.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    see where i said ha this is a joke… but then go on to talk about multiple enemies etc?

    I did understand the “this is a joke” in a different way - and felt to stress that its not the addition of special daze (which was a good thing) that feels wrong but the stamina regain.

    I think the things you mentioned are basically the reason why the stamina regain was implemented. To give the defender a chance to fight back. It makes the game more dynamic as he is not down yet (you can also come back without ragining stamina but its much harder). And as defender you do not have the impression of being helplessly choked to death (if no teammates comes to the rescue - which is most likely not the case).

    On the other side its like giving a chess player two new pawns the turn after he lost his last one. You placed yourself in a bad spot by wasting your resources and then you get “rewarded” for the sake of staying in game when you probably deserve to lose. It makes the decision to waste resources much easier as you have this “Get Out of Jail Free card” as long as your hitpoints are high enough to survive the free hit.


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