Blunt weapon stabbing



  • @Aemil:

    You seem to be indeed confused. Maul, Grand Mace, Bearded Axe, and the double axe where all separate example.

    where they?

    I see what you are trying to do… I don’t know, you need to work on your thoughts and get more organized within your posts… that and learn some engrish. I hope it’s not your primary language. I see the parenthesis was my error, but your next line discussing them goes from 1 handed weapons, but you continue that thought to talk again about the 2 handers without separating the two thoughts. THIS was where it got confusing. Either way, what I posted as a response is still my response, and i stand by it. SOME 1 handers have too fast of a poke, i’d say the flange, and the holy water as examples… but no two hander has too fast of a poke. The argument for those is having the damage on the two handed pokes for a weapon you would’nt think would do too much damage with a poke… but you have to understand there it’s not for realism… it’s for game balance. For most of those 2 handers, the poke is their fastest attack, and all of the weapons have different damage types to give them uses vs certain other classes. I think some additional weapon balance is needed in certain instances, which may eventually happen.



  • Blunt stabs are way too effective. It doesn’t matter what weapon it is - Sprinkler to Bearded Axe and everything in between. They are sometimes more lethal than the blade or blunt surface itself. Stabs are usually faster than swings and overheads and they have a much harder to see windup and can have a better reach. On top of that, lookdown stabs can be extremely difficult to parry.

    It’s not uncommon to see players go entire rounds using nothing but blunt stabs and being extremely effective with them. As stated, they can 3 or even 2 shot a Vanguard, and explode his head to boot.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    @Aemil:

    You seem to be indeed confused. Maul, Grand Mace, Bearded Axe, and the double axe where all separate example.

    where they?

    I see what you are trying to do… I don’t know, you need to work on your thoughts and get more organized within your posts… that and learn some engrish. I hope it’s not your primary language. I see the parenthesis was my error, but your next line discussing them goes from 1 handed weapons, but you continue that thought to talk again about the 2 handers without separating the two thoughts. THIS was where it got confusing. Either way, what I posted as a response is still my response, and i stand by it. SOME 1 handers have too fast of a poke, i’d say the flange, and the holy water as examples… but no two hander has too fast of a poke. The argument for those is having the damage on the two handed pokes for a weapon you would’nt think would do too much damage with a poke… but you have to understand there it’s not for realism… it’s for game balance. For most of those 2 handers, the poke is their fastest attack, and all of the weapons have different damage types to give them uses vs certain other classes. I think some additional weapon balance is needed in certain instances, which may eventually happen.

    Here are the weapons I’m talking about: All one handed maces and hammers, all one handed axes, Maul, Grand Mace, Bearded Axe, Double Axe.
    What was so confusing about that?



  • This is becoming a circular debate. Perhaps go back and read through the entire thread. I think all opinions are well covered.



  • Here’s what you guys wanting it removed need to do.

    Take a claw hammer, sledge hammer, Hatchet, a mallet(hws basically), and a wood chopping axe.

    Find a friend who is willing to assist and ask him/her to in the way that is easiest for them to poke you in the arms torso legs and face while you have a bucket on your head while wearing a trashcan as hard as they can.

    Tell me if any of them don’t hurt. I fully expect the sledge hammer to knock on your ass with a shot to the legs or arms, knock you flat on your back gasping for air in the torso and more than bloodly likely knock you unconcious and break your nose with a shot to the head. I expect the same results with the wood axe. and slightly lesser results with the rest.

    if a person can sustain very serious neck injuries in an accident at 5mph. Do you expect any less from getting a maul stabbed in to your face, armour or not?



  • @Goden:

    Blunt stabs are way too effective. It doesn’t matter what weapon it is - Sprinkler to Bearded Axe and everything in between. They are sometimes more lethal than the blade or blunt surface itself. Stabs are usually faster than swings and overheads and they have a much harder to see windup and can have a better reach. On top of that, lookdown stabs can be extremely difficult to parry.

    It’s not uncommon to see players go entire rounds using nothing but blunt stabs and being extremely effective with them. As stated, they can 3 or even 2 shot a Vanguard, and explode his head to boot.

    what does 2 or 3 shotting a vanguard have to do with the argument? Any of those weapons , especially the 2 handers can sometimes 1 hit a vanguard. If you’re talking MAA, then his strikes can 2 shot vanguards with multiple weapons… i mean… why is that even a part of your argument? If he doesn’t hit you and you learn to parry these weapons, they won’t be 2 shotting anything. They’ll be dead.

    Good players will make use of ANY weapon in the game well… so honestly… there isn’t any weapon you can choose that someonoe is not going to kill you with. get over dying and try practicing more against them specificaly. Once you learn how to defend against them, maybe you won’t complain about them as much. The game is not meant to be entirely realistic, it’s meant to have balance… you can’t have poke attacks do shitty damage because of realism, it’s to balance out weapons to others in the game and make them usable. If the poke does a lot of damage, maybe the other strikes do not. If the other strikes don’t do the damage, it will… fists do not explode heads in real life… unless you are a fucking powerhouse… but it’s to add flair to the game. Things like the poke doing damage… that’s a balance thing and you guys need to get over it.



  • ihave no problem with it.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    @Goden:

    Blunt stabs are way too effective. It doesn’t matter what weapon it is - Sprinkler to Bearded Axe and everything in between. They are sometimes more lethal than the blade or blunt surface itself. Stabs are usually faster than swings and overheads and they have a much harder to see windup and can have a better reach. On top of that, lookdown stabs can be extremely difficult to parry.

    It’s not uncommon to see players go entire rounds using nothing but blunt stabs and being extremely effective with them. As stated, they can 3 or even 2 shot a Vanguard, and explode his head to boot.

    what does 2 or 3 shotting a vanguard have to do with the argument? Any of those weapons , especially the 2 handers can sometimes 1 hit a vanguard. If you’re talking MAA, then his strikes can 2 shot vanguards with multiple weapons… i mean… why is that even a part of your argument? If he doesn’t hit you and you learn to parry these weapons, they won’t be 2 shotting anything. They’ll be dead.

    Good players will make use of ANY weapon in the game well… so honestly… there isn’t any weapon you can choose that someonoe is not going to kill you with. get over dying and try practicing more against them specificaly. Once you learn how to defend against them, maybe you won’t complain about them as much. The game is not meant to be entirely realistic, it’s meant to have balance… you can’t have poke attacks do shitty damage because of realism, it’s to balance out weapons to others in the game and make them usable. If the poke does a lot of damage, maybe the other strikes do not. If the other strikes don’t do the damage, it will… fists do not explode heads in real life… unless you are a fucking powerhouse… but it’s to add flair to the game. Things like the poke doing damage… that’s a balance thing and you guys need to get over it.

    If you compare the stab damage of the mace with the sword, it’s much to similar. Make the stab do less damage is all I’m asking the developers.



  • @Aemil:

    Make the stab do less damage is all I’m asking the developers.

    you want the stab on all these weapons mentioned reduced? or you want a specific one out of the ones mentioned reduced? There’s a big difference because… if you change the stab on all blunt weapons they’d have to change everything in the game around balancing that new aspect out.



  • Reduce the speed on the one handed maces and one handed hammers. Reduce the damage on two handed blunt weapons such as maul and grand mace. Reduce damage on holy water sprinklers.



  • @Aemil:

    Reduce the speed on the one handed maces and one handed hammers. Reduce the damage on two handed blunt weapons such as maul and grand mace. Reduce damage on holy water sprinklers.

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?



  • @giantyak:

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?

    You do understand that the only 2h weapon that has the least windup of all of its attacks as stab is the maul? And that it is the other way around for 1h blunts/axes?

    Grandmace vs Flanged mace windup:
    Overhead 0.5s 0.45s
    Stab 0.6s 0.3s

    You see the flanged mace overhead has only 10% less windup, while its stab is HALF the windup of the grandmace.

    Logical? Hell no. Balance reasons? Hell no. A mace stab being the fastest attack in the game? Stupid as hell.



  • The actual problem at hand isn’t individual weapons in the game.

    The problem is the game doesn’t follow any logic in terms of damage types. Weapons seemed like they were supposed to be balanced to be favourable in killing certain classes but that’s just not the case. An example of this would be that the grand mace can 2 hit a knight reliably because it’s blunt damage and it makes sense because it’s blunt.

    On the other spectrum of things Pierce weapons (which should hurt plate) do squidly fuck all damage to knights wearing plate as the weapons were balanced via damage to effect all classes and not the ones that the weapon should be effective against.

    The reason for all this bullshit is because when the developers made / balanced these weapons they didn’t seem to take CLASS RESISTANCES into consideration (or not nearly asmuch as they should) whatsoever and any change made was only to DAMAGE on the weapon which causes HWS to be 2shotting vanguards and other stupid shit.

    blunt/pierce/slash/swing/cock doesn’t mean shit - all weapons are just different damage values

    So the reason is doesn’t matter that it’s a mace that’s stabbing you is because resistances don’t mean diddly in Chivalry and if you just plainly nerf damage you are not actually solving the problem you are just covering it up and fucking something else up in another situation.



  • While I don’t think stabbing attacks with clubs and the like should do much damage, I don’t see what’s wrong with letting them stab. The difference is that they should do noticeably more damage on an overhead and a lot less on stab.

    HWS atm, I barely notice any difference in damage between overhead and swing, while stab does almost as much as a swing. Which is dumb :\

    People swing the spears around as a blunt weapon every now and then when stabs are being blocked a lot. If you could only stab with a spear it’d be very predictable, just like it’d be really predictable if you could only ever swing club weapons. So stab should stay, but get some kind of damage nerf.

    I also think the speed of a club stab is fine - 2H blunt weapons are really slow, when I stab with the Maul it’s usually because my swings are being predicted. If the stab was made even slower, the maul/grand mace would become pretty useless.

    Also, even if they are blunt weapons, logic dictates that having a club thrust into your face or your stomach is really rather painful, whether you be a Vanguard, Man At Arms, Archer or Knight! :P

    I mean, 2 hitting a MAA doesn’t seem too outlandish to me when you think it’s a freaking huge club knocking out most of your teeth



  • Please don’t change anything, I love feinting (at the very last second and ONLY one feint) a overhead with the maul into a stab. Heck I think this is the only way I get kills with my maul. And I also think it adds to the comedic effect of the game that my maul 2 shots maa and 3 shots vangaurds with my maul stabs. How ever tbh I don’t know if it should be “nerfed” or not.



  • @Falc:

    @giantyak:

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?

    You do understand that the only 2h weapon that has the least windup of all of its attacks as stab is the maul? And that it is the other way around for 1h blunts/axes?

    Grandmace vs Flanged mace windup:
    Overhead 0.5s 0.45s
    Stab 0.6s 0.3s

    You see the flanged mace overhead has only 10% less windup, while its stab is HALF the windup of the grandmace.

    Logical? Hell no. Balance reasons? Hell no. A mace stab being the fastest attack in the game? Stupid as hell.

    I get what you’re saying Mr Falc. But i don’t think i have ever been hit by a maul thrust after i passed 50hrs of game play. Not ever….unless it hit me in the back and i didn’t see it. But otherwise never. To be honest thats not a big claim because there are hardly ANY maul players left anymore.

    Nevertheless i have been hit but thrusts from the other weapons.

    So i don’t think looking at these numbers is of a greater importance.

    People: by the way in this instance please read the whole thread to bring yourself up to speed on this topic if you wish to add your piece. Lets avoid circular discussion, Cheers



  • @Falc:

    @giantyak:

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?

    You do understand that the only 2h weapon that has the least windup of all of its attacks as stab is the maul? And that it is the other way around for 1h blunts/axes?

    Grandmace vs Flanged mace windup:
    Overhead 0.5s 0.45s
    Stab 0.6s 0.3s

    why don’t you compare the RELEASE times as well… i’m assuming the release timing on the gmace is MUCH slower than the flange… am i correct in my assumption? Windups can be similar, but the flanged mace is absolutely faster than the grand mace because of its attack speed. Not the windup itself. there are 3 parts to attack… windup, release, and recovery… they all have specific timings so while the flange windup may be pretty close, i’m pretty sure it’s release time is MUCH faster.

    I just realized i just responded to another one of your posts where you are talking about kiting vanguards and not being able to deal with them as shield knight, and then on the other hand you have trouble as the vanguard going against the shield night on the other side… sounds like you have a lot of issues that more skilled players don’t have. I’m not going to say the typical “learn to play” line to you because i don’t do that… however, i think you need more experience… and to try new things. Maybe you aren’t playing against as high caliber players as you think you are, or if you are… you’re not learning from them by picking up different tactics. Seems to be a PEBKAC issue lol



  • @giantyak: Yes maul stab is still slow. Flanged mace is too fast though. Nobody can tell me with a straight face that having a mace being the fastest weapon in the game while STABBING (you don’t stab with top heavy blunt weapons….because why would you? Maybe because your arm suddenly gets twice as strong so can stab at ridiculous speeds?) is reasonable. It is not needed for balance either.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    @Falc:

    @giantyak:

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?

    You do understand that the only 2h weapon that has the least windup of all of its attacks as stab is the maul? And that it is the other way around for 1h blunts/axes?

    Grandmace vs Flanged mace windup:
    Overhead 0.5s 0.45s
    Stab 0.6s 0.3s

    why don’t you compare the RELEASE times as well… i’m assuming the release timing on the gmace is MUCH slower than the flange… am i correct in my assumption? Windups can be similar, but the flanged mace is absolutely faster than the grand mace because of its attack speed. Not the windup itself. there are 3 parts to attack… windup, release, and recovery… they all have specific timings so while the flange windup may be pretty close, i’m pretty sure it’s release time is MUCH faster.

    What are you trying to tell me here? Flanged mace stab gets even better when compared to the grandmace when you take the release times into account. You can’t really take release into account because of lookdowns on overheads and stabs also hit very soon in their release. Just add 0.1s on everything. Doesn’t change much. The point still stands: Flanged mace stab is much faster than it should be to be consistent with 2h axes/maces. Also too fast to be reasonable. It is faster than the hunting knife stab ffs. There is seriously no arguing that its speed is fine.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    I just realized i just responded to another one of your posts where you are talking about kiting vanguards and not being able to deal with them as shield knight, and then on the other hand you have trouble as the vanguard going against the shield night on the other side… sounds like you have a lot of issues that more skilled players don’t have. I’m not going to say the typical “learn to play” line to you because i don’t do that… however, i think you need more experience… and to try new things. Maybe you aren’t playing against as high caliber players as you think you are, or if you are… you’re not learning from them by picking up different tactics. Seems to be a PEBKAC issue lol

    I’m playing with and against the best players of Europe. I LOVE analyzing stuff (its an integral part of what I’m doing in real life) and “in that other thread” you mentioned I even wrote that I have talked to and observed what other players do in the same situation. Not one of them had a working tactic. That is the very reason why I created the other thread: because after hours of thinking and trying I (and others) have come to the conclusion that there IS a problem. Hell I asked the vanguard of the team that won the Eu tournament a week ago what he does in a duel against a shield Knight: “I don’t duel shield Knights”. Not a satisfying answer for me, but you get where this is going. Of course you could tell what might be the best Vg of Europe “to get more experience”, but that would be a bit ridiculous, wouldn’t it?

    I think you haven’t faced a good enough shield Knight as Vg yet. I don’t have problems against pretty much all shield Knights. Its just that no matter how good you are, feints ALWAYS work. And quite effectively. But they do not against shields, because kick can be avoided on pure reaction. And very reliably. So the most effective offensive-maneuver does not work AT ALL against top level shield Knights. So shields in the hands of very good players are pretty much the same as they were before the nerf. And they were op as shit back then.

    I don’t want to derail this thread, so if you want to discuss why shields Knights have an advantage over Vgs in 1v1, then let us do this in the other thread. But I have yet to hear another argument besides: I have beaten a shield Knight, so it can’t be imbalanced.

    What is PEBKAC?oO



  • PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

    one of the shield knights i played with the most in practice and still try to is Vengeful Viking from interitus… he usually weilds the warhammer and kite shield. Id say he’s one of the better shield knights out there… we always have amazing duels too… he beats me a lot, i beat him sometimes but it’s always good practice for me. Spear is my choice for van weapon when facing shield… you just have to use what you’re given. I have dueled shield nights no-feint on my behalf as well, and practiced with venge on that, letting him feint if he chooses but i wouldn’t let myself feint. Then i also practice with feint because it opens alot of opportunities. Feinting to kicks are good to draw the shield block. Also drawing the siheld block with a thrust while sprinting towards… and then feinting into an overhand while jumping when you get right up to them so you stab them on the top of the head… thngs of that nature… I also like dragging my pokes around the shield both thrust and overhands depending on the situation… i also like to do quick slashes when i close the distance but he blocks, but i can back off and swing it fast enough to get a flinch… beingt he spears fastest attack. I also do z-stabs… which you basically run to ones side acting like you are going to round him to the right, then drag the stab or overhead stab to the other side and bringing it in, basically running in a Z, etc ,etc. Also using the ranges and the long pokes to keep the distance with the small knockback you get from them. SOmetimes this causes an attack and you can throw anohter one while they attack out of range. SO many things you can do… just gotta get a little creative. Theres also “matrix” pokes which if you seen moosie’s video… just imagine the same thing but with a spear for the extra range… also ducking comes into play to get good hits off when they slash on ya… sidestepping attacks… all that jazz that all classes are capable of.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

    Definitely not true for me. I can’t afford a chair.

    I don’t want to derail this thread, so just a few things:
    -while the tactics you posted are good and nothing new, you always have to keep two things in mind: 1)none of these are even remotely as good as a feint against someone without a shield.
    2)all of these work against parries as well
    -what pings do you usually have in NA? In Eu pings are around ~50. I have noticed that “around-parry-attacks” from someone with ~120+ ping are MUUUCH harder to block because of desync.
    -have you tried your “own” tactic of switching sides? Once you know that pretty much everything a spear can do against a shield is to stab over it or to the sides it gets pretty easy to defend against. Always aim your shield block slightly upwards (as they won’t get your feet anyway). Now pretty much all you have to do is block right/left and sprint and him till you can kill him.
    -why is he using a warhammer against a spear anyway? The warhammer is for Knights only, he would be much better off pulling out his secondary. That would gain him speed and/or reach. Nothing better than a holy water sprinkler 3/4shotting a Vg/Knight at maximum speed.(to get back on topic^^)


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