Blunt weapon stabbing



  • @giantyak: Yes maul stab is still slow. Flanged mace is too fast though. Nobody can tell me with a straight face that having a mace being the fastest weapon in the game while STABBING (you don’t stab with top heavy blunt weapons….because why would you? Maybe because your arm suddenly gets twice as strong so can stab at ridiculous speeds?) is reasonable. It is not needed for balance either.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    @Falc:

    @giantyak:

    You do understand that a stab with any weapon will be faster then its swing?

    You do understand that the only 2h weapon that has the least windup of all of its attacks as stab is the maul? And that it is the other way around for 1h blunts/axes?

    Grandmace vs Flanged mace windup:
    Overhead 0.5s 0.45s
    Stab 0.6s 0.3s

    why don’t you compare the RELEASE times as well… i’m assuming the release timing on the gmace is MUCH slower than the flange… am i correct in my assumption? Windups can be similar, but the flanged mace is absolutely faster than the grand mace because of its attack speed. Not the windup itself. there are 3 parts to attack… windup, release, and recovery… they all have specific timings so while the flange windup may be pretty close, i’m pretty sure it’s release time is MUCH faster.

    What are you trying to tell me here? Flanged mace stab gets even better when compared to the grandmace when you take the release times into account. You can’t really take release into account because of lookdowns on overheads and stabs also hit very soon in their release. Just add 0.1s on everything. Doesn’t change much. The point still stands: Flanged mace stab is much faster than it should be to be consistent with 2h axes/maces. Also too fast to be reasonable. It is faster than the hunting knife stab ffs. There is seriously no arguing that its speed is fine.

    @clayton-bigsby:

    I just realized i just responded to another one of your posts where you are talking about kiting vanguards and not being able to deal with them as shield knight, and then on the other hand you have trouble as the vanguard going against the shield night on the other side… sounds like you have a lot of issues that more skilled players don’t have. I’m not going to say the typical “learn to play” line to you because i don’t do that… however, i think you need more experience… and to try new things. Maybe you aren’t playing against as high caliber players as you think you are, or if you are… you’re not learning from them by picking up different tactics. Seems to be a PEBKAC issue lol

    I’m playing with and against the best players of Europe. I LOVE analyzing stuff (its an integral part of what I’m doing in real life) and “in that other thread” you mentioned I even wrote that I have talked to and observed what other players do in the same situation. Not one of them had a working tactic. That is the very reason why I created the other thread: because after hours of thinking and trying I (and others) have come to the conclusion that there IS a problem. Hell I asked the vanguard of the team that won the Eu tournament a week ago what he does in a duel against a shield Knight: “I don’t duel shield Knights”. Not a satisfying answer for me, but you get where this is going. Of course you could tell what might be the best Vg of Europe “to get more experience”, but that would be a bit ridiculous, wouldn’t it?

    I think you haven’t faced a good enough shield Knight as Vg yet. I don’t have problems against pretty much all shield Knights. Its just that no matter how good you are, feints ALWAYS work. And quite effectively. But they do not against shields, because kick can be avoided on pure reaction. And very reliably. So the most effective offensive-maneuver does not work AT ALL against top level shield Knights. So shields in the hands of very good players are pretty much the same as they were before the nerf. And they were op as shit back then.

    I don’t want to derail this thread, so if you want to discuss why shields Knights have an advantage over Vgs in 1v1, then let us do this in the other thread. But I have yet to hear another argument besides: I have beaten a shield Knight, so it can’t be imbalanced.

    What is PEBKAC?oO



  • PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

    one of the shield knights i played with the most in practice and still try to is Vengeful Viking from interitus… he usually weilds the warhammer and kite shield. Id say he’s one of the better shield knights out there… we always have amazing duels too… he beats me a lot, i beat him sometimes but it’s always good practice for me. Spear is my choice for van weapon when facing shield… you just have to use what you’re given. I have dueled shield nights no-feint on my behalf as well, and practiced with venge on that, letting him feint if he chooses but i wouldn’t let myself feint. Then i also practice with feint because it opens alot of opportunities. Feinting to kicks are good to draw the shield block. Also drawing the siheld block with a thrust while sprinting towards… and then feinting into an overhand while jumping when you get right up to them so you stab them on the top of the head… thngs of that nature… I also like dragging my pokes around the shield both thrust and overhands depending on the situation… i also like to do quick slashes when i close the distance but he blocks, but i can back off and swing it fast enough to get a flinch… beingt he spears fastest attack. I also do z-stabs… which you basically run to ones side acting like you are going to round him to the right, then drag the stab or overhead stab to the other side and bringing it in, basically running in a Z, etc ,etc. Also using the ranges and the long pokes to keep the distance with the small knockback you get from them. SOmetimes this causes an attack and you can throw anohter one while they attack out of range. SO many things you can do… just gotta get a little creative. Theres also “matrix” pokes which if you seen moosie’s video… just imagine the same thing but with a spear for the extra range… also ducking comes into play to get good hits off when they slash on ya… sidestepping attacks… all that jazz that all classes are capable of.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

    Definitely not true for me. I can’t afford a chair.

    I don’t want to derail this thread, so just a few things:
    -while the tactics you posted are good and nothing new, you always have to keep two things in mind: 1)none of these are even remotely as good as a feint against someone without a shield.
    2)all of these work against parries as well
    -what pings do you usually have in NA? In Eu pings are around ~50. I have noticed that “around-parry-attacks” from someone with ~120+ ping are MUUUCH harder to block because of desync.
    -have you tried your “own” tactic of switching sides? Once you know that pretty much everything a spear can do against a shield is to stab over it or to the sides it gets pretty easy to defend against. Always aim your shield block slightly upwards (as they won’t get your feet anyway). Now pretty much all you have to do is block right/left and sprint and him till you can kill him.
    -why is he using a warhammer against a spear anyway? The warhammer is for Knights only, he would be much better off pulling out his secondary. That would gain him speed and/or reach. Nothing better than a holy water sprinkler 3/4shotting a Vg/Knight at maximum speed.(to get back on topic^^)



  • damn, and now i’ve given away like 75% of my spear tactics lol I wanted to make a video anyway to share with people. I’m pretty decent with a spear man… i put a LOT of practice into it. ANd i won’t say that i win the majority, sometimes i do on my good days, sometimes i lose a lot… but each time I lose i realize where i made a mistake and try to correct it



  • I still don’t understand why a mace can stab faster than a sword. I heard it has a faster windup than even the hunting knife! (Which is supposed to be the fastest weapon in the game, mind you….)



  • What about making the stabs with this sort of weapon actually faster but with much lesser reach (especially the maul… that’s just stupid) and low damage? That’s basically how it worked IRL, fast strike with questionable damages but still throwing the enemy in disarray (i.e. basically flinching) so that he could be finished with regular attacks while desoriented.



  • Eh no that is not how it works in real life. Putting a heavy weight on the end of a stick does NOT make stabbing faster. The very opposite is true. Its not even consistent within its own “fanatasy” world. Because once you use that stick with a weight with two hands, you get as slow as everybody else.



  • @Falc:

    Eh no that is not how it works in real life. Putting a heavy weight on the end of a stick does NOT make stabbing faster. The very opposite is true. Its not even consistent within its own “fanatasy” world. Because once you use that stick with a weight with two hands, you get as slow as everybody else.

    Exactly. It’s actually a good way to lose your weapon!! So, what is needed is to make mace stabs slower. Because right now they’re too good for flinching.



  • If you remove fast stabs from some of the blunt weapons then you need to buff them in some other area then. The flanged mace currently does the same damage from an overhead as a slash, and overheads are slower meaning there’s virtually no reason to ever use an overhead. If you remove the fast jab then it will become a very boring weapon with only one usable attack - slash.

    As it’s a very short weapon I think a fast jab isn’t out of the question but obviously a being as fast as the fastest weapon is a little too much.

    Maybe make the stab windup 0.4 but make the overhead do 70, or change the stab to 0.45 and make the overhead do 75? At least then the mace will make it worthwhile doing overheads.



  • @Dr:

    If you remove fast stabs from some of the blunt weapons then you need to buff them in some other area then. The flanged mace currently does the same damage from an overhead as a slash, and overheads are slower meaning there’s virtually no reason to ever use an overhead. If you remove the fast jab then it will become a very boring weapon with only one usable attack - slash.

    As it’s a very short weapon I think a fast jab isn’t out of the question but obviously a being as fast as the fastest weapon is a little too much.

    Maybe make the stab windup 0.4 but make the overhead do 70, or change the stab to 0.45 and make the overhead do 75? At least then the mace will make it worthwhile doing overheads.

    I use overheads all the time. I don’t really care unless the stab is first nerfed though.



  • @Aemil:

    @Dr:

    If you remove fast stabs from some of the blunt weapons then you need to buff them in some other area then. The flanged mace currently does the same damage from an overhead as a slash, and overheads are slower meaning there’s virtually no reason to ever use an overhead. If you remove the fast jab then it will become a very boring weapon with only one usable attack - slash.

    As it’s a very short weapon I think a fast jab isn’t out of the question but obviously a being as fast as the fastest weapon is a little too much.

    Maybe make the stab windup 0.4 but make the overhead do 70, or change the stab to 0.45 and make the overhead do 75? At least then the mace will make it worthwhile doing overheads.

    I use overheads all the time. I don’t really care unless the stab is first nerfed though.

    Yeah I use overheads too, as you need to change up your style or else you will get predictable. However I feel that every weapon needs at least a little variety to their strikes or they become a little one dimensional. If you upped the overhead damage to 70 it wouldn’t really change the amount of hits it would take to kill an opponent that much except allow overheads to the torso to two hit vanguards and men at arms (which currently require head hits or three hits to the torso) this would make it similar to the morning star which still has the advantage of range and a more powerful thrust.



  • @Falc:

    -why is he using a warhammer against a spear anyway? The warhammer is for Knights only, he would be much better off pulling out his secondary. That would gain him speed and/or reach. Nothing better than a holy water sprinkler 3/4shotting a Vg/Knight at maximum speed.(to get back on topic^^)

    because that’s his weapon of choice, and he’s good with it… ever fought him? He can hold his own and knows what he’s doing.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    @Falc:

    -why is he using a warhammer against a spear anyway? The warhammer is for Knights only, he would be much better off pulling out his secondary. That would gain him speed and/or reach. Nothing better than a holy water sprinkler 3/4shotting a Vg/Knight at maximum speed.(to get back on topic^^)

    because that’s his weapon of choice, and he’s good with it… ever fought him? He can hold his own and knows what he’s doing.

    I’m just saying this because there are straight up upgrades for his weapon if he faces Vgs (his secondary). Warhammer is only good against Knights…short and “slow”. For example he could use a morning star and would still kill you with 2 hits at a longer range with pretty much the same speed. Or a flanged mace/hws for the lolstab. This has nothing to do with skill, these are simply superior weapons when facing a Vg ;)



  • personal preference i guess. I’m sure he has switched to secondary on me… just can’t remember what his secondary of choice was.


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