[SPEARS] Swap Overhead & Stab Buttons

  • I’ve raised this at a mod meeting before, but it wasn’t really felt necessary or that anyone would want it. However I’d like to gauge other’s feelings on this.

    I’d very much like the Stab & Overhead attacks on the Vanguard Spear weapons (Spear, Fork & Brandistock) to be swapped. Just the key bindings that they’re executed from, nothing else.

    My reasoning for this is that because with EVERY, and I mean EVERY other weapon, the “Stab” (Tertiary) attack is a long, low, far reaching, thrusting attack. The “Overhead” (Secondary) attack is a “Short”, “High” attack.

    However currently with the Spears this is the opposite way around! Overhead does a long thrust, Stab does a “High” attack at head level! Obviously this isn’t mega priority, but I presume it wouldn’t take much to change either. It really sends my consistency OCD into overdrive and also irritates me every time in battle when someone gets in my face so I intuitively go for the overhead “High” attack and end up doing a long, low thrust instead. Why is it different ONLY for this weapon type! Consistency and Standards is a golden cognitive rule!

    (It used to be even worse in Alpha, where Stab would do the horizontal swing instead heh, fortunately they changed that, but I still feel they’re on the wrong buttons).

  • I like it the way it is now honestly, it’s what I’m used to.

  • I can see the merit in this.

    The bradistock used to be my go to weapon in times of need (still is for duels sometimes), but more lately the tier 1 spear has been the go for FFA or TO because eeeeevery one can attack as fast as an MAA now with any weapon….or at least with the weapons that people choose take nowadays.

    In my mind i’d always considered the overhead attack (the one thats currently bound to overhead buttons) to be like a horizontal impaling attack because its windup is so slow.

    But yes i think the overhead animation should match the overhead button.

  • @giantyak:

    But i think the overhead animation should match the overhead button.

    Does that mean you feel the current “Stab” (Tertiary attack) should be on the Secondary button (overhead) instead? As that’s what I was getting at heh.

    No change to the attacks or animations, just switch the buttons, so the “High” one is on Overhead (Secondary), the Thrust / Far / Stabby one is on Stab (Tertiary). This matches EVERY other weapon.

    I use Secondary attack (right-click for me) when I want a hard, high level hit on someone up close. I stab (Tertiary) when I want to thrust out at someone at range, (with every other weapon that is). With Spears, tis backwards!

    It’s great that they moved the horizontal swing from Stab to the Primary button during Alpha, (and also created the current stab “High” hitting animation as it’s perfect for such an attack with a spear), it just now needs those two buttons (Secondary & Tertiary) swapping and all’s good for me, nice and consistent, and therefore intuitive when you’ve got someone in your face.

    I sort of understand the “Keep it how it is as I’m used to it” thing, but really, what are you used to with EVERY other weapon in the game? “High” attacks being on Secondary, “Far” / “Thrusting” ones being on Tertiary…

  • I’m in agreeance with you Mr BobT36. But i don’t want to rephrase here because i’d just make my position even more confusing :D

    fixed my previous post, it should be slightly less confusing now

  • What are you talking about? Doesn’t mousewheel up do a long straight stab, and mousewheel down do a downward pointing short stab?

  • Spear stabs/“overheads” are the opposite mouse wheel direction to other weapon class’ stabs.

  • I personally like how it is. Just because as I see it, an overhead is a very powerful attack and that’s what the current overhead version of the stab is.

    And I changed up my keybinds anyways, so my secondary attack is right click and parry is middle mouse button. I kept my settings like how it was in AoC XD.

    I see where you’re coming from though. Perhaps they can just name the overhead a stab and the tertiary a “jab” as that’s what it feels more like to me anyways haha.

  • What you propose makes perfect sense (and I agree with completely), but as with every released game, people dislike changes, even small changes, that change the way they play. Something as simple as ‘You now actually overhead with the overhead button and stab with the stab button with the Spear weapons’ would send lots of people into a fit.

  • but… why can’t you just re-do your keybinds… or if you have a mouse that’s profileable create a new profile? how hard would that be to change it to YOUR preferences instead of messing with the entire game community’s? I personally think it feels more natural to have the long thrust on the mwheeldown and the overhead poke on mwheel up… it feels natural to me. Maybe it’s because i’m used to it now… but if it changed i would be completely mind-fucked

  • ^^ you can’t change it because then it would make all the other weapons backwards.

    Anyway, it’s not something that bothers me. I’m used to the way it is now, and I don’t really care what direction or from where a weapon is swinging or stabbing. I consider the “overhead” to be a power attack on all weapons, and that’s exactly what it is on the current spear setup. Are there any weapons where the overhead does less damage than the stab? That would defeat my logic, but I don’t really use all classes and weapons so I don’t have the experience in that matter.

    This is similar to the guy who was complaining about the direction of the spear slash being the opposite of all the other weapons. I don’t really understand why or how that actually interferes with your ability to play the game, but everyone’s brain works differently I guess.

  • I am ok with the current way (only because I am used to it).
    But in tutorial you are being taught that:

    a) Overhead does more damage than Slash
    b) Stab has most reach

    There are other weapons which overhead attacks do less damage than their stabs (e.g. Shortsword) and by animation the current stab is an some kind of overhead attack and the current stab is definitely a stab.
    Also if you just start you will have a good reason to think that the stab is the spears most powerful attack. There is indeed more logic in switching them.

  • @Evil:

    In tutorial you are being taught that:

    a) Overhead does more damage than Slash
    b) Stab has most reach

    There are other weapons which overhead attacks do less damage than their stabs (e.g. Shortsword) and by animation the current stab is an some kind of overhead attack and the current stab (overhead?) is definitely a stab.
    Also if you just start you will have a good reason to think that the stab is the spears most powerful attack. There is indeed more logic in switching them.

    This, tis the consistency that bothers me most.

    Also Clayton, if there was an option I’d LOVE to change it just for me! However like the other dude said, that would make ALL the other weapons backwards then heh. (Remember this is JUST the three spears that work differently, which is why I’m proposing the change). I personally have left click as swing, right click as overhead, and stab on .

    Therefore If I’m wanting a far reaching attack I press . If I’m wanting a “high” attack that aims for the enemies head, I right-click. As minion mentioned, the tutorial specifically says Stabs have the most reach, but for spears (the very weapons that you’d imagine be based around reach!!) this is not so! The “reach” attack (long thrust) is actually on Secondary, while the other is a short poke.

    As I understand people are “used” to the current anims and would have to swap their thinking along with the buttons to get used to it again but…you have to do that EVERY time you change weapons to a non-spear anyway!

    That being said if there was some way for me to bind the thrust on Tertiary button, and the “High” poke on Secondary just for the spears, I’d do that if I could heh. Even if I had a gaming mouse that could switch “profiles”, the very fact that having to do so because ONE style of weapon is different to ALL the others, is exactly what’s silly. In the end it’s what the majority prefer that matters but, I’d love some way to change it in the configs at least if possible.

    (Slashing left to right isn’t as much of a problem I don’t think as the TYPE of attack is the same, a horizontal swing, the mind thinking “I need a large sweeping swing” will get one. Also there’s the option to change that by using alt swing. Can’t exactly change how the other two work, due to them being on the wrong buttons).

  • But does this actually affect your gameplay, or are you just bothered on principle?

    I mean, who actually thinks “I WANNA ATTACK HIGH, BETTER USE MOUSEWHEEL DOWN” when they’re playing? Don’t you just know which attack is which, given your current weapon?

  • Both really.

    In the heat of battle, on any other weapon, right-clicking for me will attack short-ranged and “high”. \ will do a long thrust. With spears being the weapon specifically geared towards long-ranged thrusting, the thrust button doesn’t actually do so, it does a short-ranged jab instead. This is by principle silly, and rather weird when swapping between weapons. There’s a consistent feel to the type of attacks on every single other wep, yet this particular one is completely backwards.

    When we’re encouraged to weave in different types of attacks into our combat, and tactically choose the right one for the right situation, (especially when they hit different places), what’s the point in having to think, oh wait a minute am I using the one weapon that’s different? Yep, better press the other button instead…

    (Again, if there was a way to configure this for personal preference, it would be great). The work involved to actually swap them would be miniscule (literally just changing which binding executes which attack for those 3 spears). I don’t think people’s time to get used to it would be significant either, given how what they’re used to with every other wep in the game.

  • I dunno. I never stop to think about it. I just do the attack I want. If the devs are the same way I can see how this would evade their attention.

    In any case, it certainly would have been good to fix this ages ago. Most people would shit bricks if they changed this now. Personally, I could probably adjust pretty quickly.

    Having it configurable would be another option, although one a bit more complicated.

  • Hehe I did raise this in Alpha. (Just after they switched the sweep from Tertiary to Primary, as it should be). Of course this is always lower priority then other stuff though, not pretending it isn’t.

    However as I mentioned I’m presuming it would be a two minute job to change. As I mentioned getting used to it shouldn’t be too much of a problem since it should then feel natural aside all the other weapons. Just wanting to gauge opinions really. :)

    Could be nice to have the ability to add lines to the config to allow configuration of what attacks are executed from what exact bindings, but that would be additional work.

  • I think the spear swings coming from the opposite side compared to other weapons is fine, because the attack is driven by the dominant hand which is on the back near the pommel (think of 8 ball pool ques). So there’s a valid reason for that, however, there does not appear to be ANY reason that the overhead and thrust is the reverse of all the other weapons. This is an inconsistency.

    Being able to overhead is important to try and get the spear over a shield block.

  • bobT… that’s why i said if you had like a programmable mouse… you could have separate profiles you can switch to easily on the mouse profile switch button… that you can switch to when you use the specific weapon you want to change… ie… the spear. I have 3 profiles between my keyboard and mouse setup. One is for knight and vanguard, another for MAA, and another for archer.

  • This is true, but the way spear overhead is currently configured in the game just seems incorrect. There doesn’t seem to be any reason that spear over head shouldn’t be using the same ‘button’ as other weapons.

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