Here is some advice i've learned through playing.
clayton-bigsby last edited by
Okay, this DISCUSSION is basically coming from a lot of posts in the balance and mechanics forums where someone will post something about weapons being unbalanced, mechanics being imbalanced… certain classes or weapons lacking, or weapons seeming overpowered in some way.
My advice to people to do first: In a lot of cases, folks will have issues with using a particular class or weapon, or playing against certain classes or weapons. My simple advice is… whatever class or weapon you are having issues with… start using it… RELIGIOUSLY for a good period of time.
Most players that are good with certain weapons/classes have used them for a long time, they’ve learned the strengths, weaknesses, and how to do maneuvers and adjust their playstyles to play with them effectively. Same goes with weapons, they’ve used the weapons for a lnog period of time to get very competent with those weapons.
For attacking, i would always try learning how to attack effectively, and on the classes/weapon matchups that i am struggling with the most. If i’m having trouble getting inside a vanguards range and long weapons, practce playing against only vanguards as much as possible. Or… .start using the vangard class. If you use the vangard more often (or the class you struggle with defending/attacking against) you can first learn how to use the vangard class properly… then once you know how to attack, how they move, their strengths and weaknesses… when you use other classes… you will have a much better understnading about how they think, how they play, and how to defend and attack AGAINST them.
If you are having trouble defending a certain weapon… start using that weapon all the time. The best way to learn how to defend one is to learn how to attack with one well, then you know the moves, what people tend to do, or think “what would I do with it”… then you have a much better understanding about defending against them… or the class… whatever it may be.
Then, when you go into this forum and start a discussion, you’ll have a better understanding of what you are talking about… why it’s strong, or why it’s weak and be able to discuss it way better. A lot of people just have problems dealing with certain classes or weapons, and they immediately think okay, this needs a nerf, or this needs a buff. But truly, any weapon in the game can be defended against, or used to attack well with/v.s anything, where there is a will there is a way. Granted, some may be more of a challenge, but that’s what balance is about, some classes have advantages over others, but all can be played effectively with.
Are you having trouble parrying certain weapons? Grab a friend, turn on tracers, have him do the typical types of attacks that class/weapon would use, practice parrying it. See where you have to aim for each strike by watching tracers.
Havnig trouble with kiting? Go against more players that kite and have them do it religiously against you and learn how to defend it.
Have trouble using a shield… use the shield more and get better at it, find ways ot make it work for you.
Ill give you some examples… back when… there was a point where there were folks that thought the spear would never be a good duel weapon (i know, crazy right? but that was the feeling of some) so what did I do personally? i used the spear religiously and dueled countless times with it. They said the spears ultimate counter was shield users becuase you can’t combo a spear, feints won’t affect the shield user and are too easy to block. Then i just focused using a spear, and using it specifically against shield knights. Now… i have no issue with shields, and in most cases prefer fighting them with my spear and show them wrong. I also had a big issue with fighting men at arms in general (still do with good ones) but what i do is i practice fighting against them… a lot… even with the spear. I purposefully at one point took away my ability to parry or feint, i unbound both keys, this taught me good footwork and how to attack… and punished me if i let them get close enough to atttack me, i used my range and footwork to win fights. Sure i lost a lot of fights, but i learned a lot in the process. I also, still do not feint my attacks, i rather use other tactics but that’s beside the point. Now… there are people that think the spear is OP, needs a nerf. Then there are others that think it needs a buff.
Another weapon that people still call very hard or useless in duels is the maul, but a player named damnitpatrick and another named bgrey now have been main-ing the maul in duels and other game modes from time to time, and they’re making it a beautiful thing. The grand mace is considered a better weapon in most all aspects, other than the fact that the maul looks cooler, but players that focus religiously on a weapon are eventually going to learn how to use it well, and find ways to make it effective… so no matter what it is, you can find strenghth in the weapon if you put the time in and practice.
I think too many people expect that they can just take a basic understanding of the game, and not put the time and hours into dedicating themselves to learning each weapon, it’s ranges, it’s strenghts, its weaknesses individually, and the same goes for each classes ^^ list above strengths, etc… So instead, since they haven’t put the time in, haven’t learned how to attack or defend with them, they immediately point the finger at them and say this needs to be nerfed, that needs a buff it’s shitty… yet then why are people still able to attack and defend with them effectively? It’s because they put the time in, and understand them better than you.
So my advice is… put yourself into that weapon or classes shoes… use it… get familiar with it, own it. Then once you’ve done that, you have a much better understanding of how to defend against it as well. Then… after you’ve done ALL of that… you can then have an intelligent and contributing discussion about classes/weapons etc. If you have not done the above, you shouldn’t just assume that you are very qualified to provide a sound argument, sorry to say.
I don’t mean to sound all high and mighty because I myself continue to practice, learn new things… play new people and see different playstyles and tactics;… and i’m constantly learning myself, even after all the hours i’ve put in and continue to soak into this game, i’m still learning and getting better at other things i haven’t mastered. But folks that assume that they know it all and have not put any of the time into the above… you can’t really discuss intelligently with someone who HAS put the time in and has a better understanding than you do of particular weapons or classes… because their understanding of it may peak yours in some or many ways.
TL;DR: Use the weapons, use the classes, become familiar with both attacking and defending against them… then show your work when you discuss them… or when you ping for nerfing or buffing something.
Falc last edited by
Well spoken, but I have to disagree on a few points:
-There are still many imbalances in this game. Some can be shown by only using math. For example the polehammer is inferior to some Vg weapons in every way
-It is true that just because someone beats you with something does not mean it is overpowered. But the reverse case is also true: If someone beats that also doesn’t mean that this setup is not underpowered.
-Spear vs shield Knight is heavily tipped in the Knights favor.
clayton-bigsby last edited by
i agree with you falc, there are some imbalances for sure, but some are meant to be there… and some arent. For example, a knight taking on an archer in duels, the knight should have the advantage… yet if the archer is good enough, he can take on the knight. In an even match, the favor is definitely toward the knight. It also depends on whether feints/combo feints are used. The grand mace, maul are perfect examples of very powerful feinting weapons. The bearded axe with combo-feints has go to be the only true OP thing in the game, and it’s totally broken. The hunting knife is a peice, but i’ve seen moose tear people up with that fucking thing. But overall yeah i agree, and i still think some weapon balance is in order, never denied that. I’m just saying the classes themselves overall have their strengths/weaknesses, but it does highly depend on both the weapons and the player.
And for the spear vs. shield. COME AT ME BROOOO! i’ll spear a shield all day… this is the though that the spear is disfavored against the shield, and i’d say it is pretty accurate for most people… however i dedicated a lot of time going against shields, and i hold up very well and can win about 50/50 if not more, that number can severely go up or down depending on the player though. There are so many ways around shields, and typically i dont even need to feint against the shield… however… if i DO feint, i’m even more powerful against shield than you may believe ;)