I don't get the knights sword tree.



  • I was comparing the knight swords to vanguard swords, and I’m not sure I get the logic behind the way the knights swords are set up.

    Vanguard swords:
    Claymore - Shortest, fastest
    Zweihänder - Longest, slowest
    Greatsword - In between those two

    Knight swords:
    SoW - Second longest, fastest
    Longsword - Longest, second fastest
    Messer - Shortest, Slowest

    Now, does that not seem weird to anyone else? I don’t know the “exact” damage output of all those weapons, except that, at least according to Hexen, the Messer and SoW have pretty much the exact same output (Messer does more damage per hit, but the SoW is faster etc.).

    The way the vanguards swords are spaced out makes perfect sense to me. The longest weapon has the biggest single hit damage, but it’s the slowest. The shortest one is the fastest. Why aren’t the knight swords like this?

    The Messer in particular doesn’t seem right to me. I mean yeah, It’s got the highest single hit damage, and it absolutely should be slow, but why is it so goddamn short?

    I’m certainly not suggesting that the SoW and Longsword are overpowered, god no. It will be a long time before you see me jump on that goddamn “Everything is OP except for my favorite setup” bandwagon. I just don’t get the stats on the Messer.



  • It would be kinda lame if all the knight weapons were just slightly weaker clones of the VG weapons, wouldn’t it?



  • The funny thing is, it is just the other way around. Knight swords are perfectly balanced (if you cannot use delays, otherwise the longsword is the best without question). Longsword and sow are nearly identical, sow stabs better, longsword overheads/slahes better. Reach is pretty much the same. Messer is slower and stronger and still has pretty much the same reach as the other two.

    Vg sword balance on the other hand is pretty messed up. The claymore is just plain bad (you are pretty much a longsword Knight with 50% less health and slightly more reach…the reason why you don’t see claymores but 8/10 Knights use longsword/sow which are nearly identical statswise) and is NOT faster than the greatsword. It is only faster on the stab, but slower on the overhead. Don’t let the ingame stats deceive you, they are just wrong. The zwei is pretty much just a slower bardiche.

    For accurate stats see here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1



  • @Goatamon:

    Knight swords:
    SoW - Second longest, fastest
    Longsword - Longest, second fastest
    Messer - Shortest, Slowest

    Just like onhanded swords:
    Norse Sword - Second longest, fastest
    Broadsword - Longest, second fastest
    Falchion - Shortest, Slowest

    Falchion and Messer are not even true swords - they are more like cleavers somewhere between axes and swords. Both are slow and short but deal high damage and got better armor penetration making them more effective against Knights but less specialized than pure crushing/chopping weapons.

    Vanguard swords: The Claymore is a slightly better longsword which cannot used in one hand. And it is faster than the Greatsword (but not in windup). Given that all vanguard swords deal the same stabbing damage you can say the Claymore got the best stab even if it reach is not as high. In overall damage output both swords are very close. The Zweihänder is comparable to the Bardiche but with a better stab and more effective against lightly armored opponents while the Bardiche is more effective against heavier targets (as it is in fact an oversized axe).



  • @Goatamon:

    The way the vanguards swords are spaced out makes perfect sense to me. The longest weapon has the biggest single hit damage, but it’s the slowest. The shortest one is the fastest. Why aren’t the knight swords like this?

    Variety is the spice of life. Especially when dating.



  • @Goatamon:

    Vanguard swords:
    Claymore - Shortest, fastest
    Zweihänder - Longest, slowest
    Greatsword - In between those two

    Knight swords:
    SoW - Second longest, fastest
    Longsword - Longest, second fastest
    Messer - Shortest, Slowest

    Uhmm, damage doesnt matter???


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