How I think feints should work



  • I don’t think feints should be used as a means to get a free hit around an otherwise well timed block. Instead feints should be used for more of a defensive purpose or maybe to confuse your opponent but, again, not get a free hit.

    Simple enough. After feinting there is a brief grace period in which you cannot attack but are free to block, kick, and otherwise operate as normal. This means if I attack into a feint and you time your block well, I don’t get to follow up with an unblockable attack. Instead, the grace period prevents me from attacking just long enough for you to have another chance to block my attack.



  • So basically a waste of time? A bit like using a kick then following up with a Brandistock stab, a completely pointless maneuver that benefits you in no manner at all.

    Don’t get me wrong, the current implementation of feints is a skill-less mess, but there’s no ‘back-bone’ to this idea, no solid purpose to it if you will, that I can see from this.



  • @Martin:

    So basically a waste of time?

    Don’t get me wrong, the current implementation of feints is a skill-less mess, but there’s no ‘back-bone’ to this idea, no solid purpose to it if you will, that I can see from this.

    What?

    The purpose is to stop feints from being free hits on opponents. It stops feinting into attacking period. What’s not to get? Once you understand feinting as a completely broken offensive mechanic, my solution should make perfect sense to you.

    You can still feint into kick, feint to cancel a misplaced swing, and feint into block which is what feinting should be used for. You can also use a feint to get closer to your opponent or to throw them off your swing pattern.

    @Martin:

    A bit like using a kick then following up with a Brandistock stab, a completely pointless maneuver that benefits you in no manner at all.

    It’d be nothing like this at all. You can run while feinting, feinting is much faster than kicking, and for all the above reasons. It won’t leave you vulnerable at all.

    As a disclaimer, I use feints all the time and understand their range of usage pretty well. Every time I use it offensively I always feel like I’m using a broken mechanic that was designed to literally bypass the blocking mechanism of the game.

    There are still PLENTY of other offensive maneuvers that can help get around blocks that are much more balanced and fair than feinting.



  • Feints were created to get past blocks. Basically you are saying remove them.

    Personally I still prefer making the attack after a feint do half damage due to loss of momentum. It fixes everything wrong with feints.



  • @gregcau:

    Feints were created to get past blocks. Basically you are saying remove them.

    Personally I still prefer making the attack after a feint do half damage due to loss of momentum. It fixes everything wrong with feints.

    Feints are an absolutely necessary mechanic in team play. Not to mention, they have far less impact in team games as well; which balances them out.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @gregcau:

    Feints were created to get past blocks. Basically you are saying remove them.

    Personally I still prefer making the attack after a feint do half damage due to loss of momentum. It fixes everything wrong with feints.

    Feints are an absolutely necessary mechanic in team play. Not to mention, they have far less impact in team games as well; which balances them out.

    I don’t agree. I’m playing without feints, and am still not bad. It’s just wrong, that they are necessary. There are so many (fair) tactics to use!

    I like the idea of making them defensive only. It would solve any problems regarding feints, and would make the game much more skillbased, and to me much more funny.

    +1



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Feints are an absolutely necessary mechanic in team play. Not to mention, they have far less impact in team games as well; which balances them out.

    I don’t have a problem with them in team play. I don’t have a problem with them in duels because I take a shield. But if you don’t have a shield a feint can end the duel almost instantly which is not really fun.

    I don’t like the changes that basically means feints can sometimes work depending on how many you did etc.

    I prefer to keep them as is, reduce the post feint attack damage so that gives the defender time to adjust to a feinters tactics and makes it just one of many options but not the go to choice.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Feints are an absolutely necessary mechanic in team to the way I play.

    Fixed



  • @Martin:

    So basically a waste of time? A bit like using a kick then following up with a Brandistock stab, a completely pointless maneuver that benefits you in no manner at all.

    Don’t get me wrong, the current implementation of feints is a skill-less mess, but there’s no ‘back-bone’ to this idea, no solid purpose to it if you will, that I can see from this.

    First off, feinting isn’t the appropriate term here. We may as well start to be accurate with our terminology. It’s simply cancelling an attack, if it’s not offensively employed it isn’t a feint. Cancelling an attack has many practical purposes. First off, cancel into a parry. Most people know about this now, it’s extremely effective but stamina heavy. I see a lot of people who first find out about this abuse it too much and drain their stamina quickly, a big no-no. You have to be careful in it.

    You can cancel an attack to prevent your hit from landing on an ally of course. Also, cancelling to lure your opponent in, especially useful against an MAA. There are even more subtle ways to use it like deliberately going into an attack you know will miss and combo-canceling into a parry for a quick counter. A lot of people don’t expect a fast parry counter from a combo-cancel parry.

    I feel feinting is not necessary; however having it in on a level where it’s possible to react to it (flash feints) is totally fine, and in fact I think I would prefer this as it adds yet another mechanic to try and trick your opponent. One more tool in the belt. Awesome. The proposed change to feints for a windup cutoff of 150 ms isn’t enough for this though. Still, it’s a step in the right direction.



  • @BillDoor:

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Feints are an absolutely necessary mechanic in team to the way I play.

    Fixed

    If you knew anything about me (which you don’t obviously), you would know that on a rare occasion do I feint in duels.

    But I guess when you pull team-play in, I guess the way “I” play is pretty much the way almost everybody plays.

    Silly judgmental person, you are.

    @Radiant

    Feinting was to give means of a way to kill quicker in a team situation, especially for TO. However, even though this is the idea behind it, feints hold much less of an impact in team situations due to being able to have a ‘buddy’ back you up. Zoning completely counters feinting 100%. Feinting is definitely a ‘counter’ to those being defensive in a duel situation, but you shouldn’t be dueling in a team game ;)

    Anyway, this is why duel mode would actually need to be completely revamped and practically made into its own game. SDK will definitely get people to re-vamp the duel system.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    If you knew anything about me (which you don’t obviously could find out by reading my posts), you would know that on a rare occasion do I feint in duels many occasions I will derail feint discussions.

    FIXED

    @NoVaLombardia:

    Feinting was to give means of a way to kill quicker in a team situation, especially for TO.

    You keep posting this as if it were true. It’s not true. Feinting is a 1v1 mechanic.



  • Removing feints would have no impact in team games, only 1v1 situations. If feints were removed today, the clans with the better teamwork/gangbanging would be superior in fights, simply moreso than they are now.



  • @Martin:

    Removing feints would have no impact in team games, only 1v1 situations. If feints were removed today, the clans with the better teamwork/gangbanging would be superior in fights, simply moreso than they are now.

    It would make attacking team much harder to play if the defending team has all that extra time to respawn. We’ve already deduced that turtling would be a problem.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Martin:

    Removing feints would have no impact in team games, only 1v1 situations. If feints were removed today, the clans with the better teamwork/gangbanging would be superior in fights, simply moreso than they are now.

    It would make attacking team much harder to play if the defending team has all that extra time to respawn. We’ve already deduced that turtling would be a problem.

    But why does this matter? In competitive scrims, it’s not one TO match, it’s 2 rounds, with each team going from defense to offense. So even if offense has a harder time, both teams get the same chance, and whoever gets furthest the quickest wins.

    It doesn’t change the fundamentals.



  • The Radiant is right, not just because he is Canadian.



  • I love the undercurrent that only clan matches matter. Because obviously, so many players actually care about clans. :?

    Feints favor the attacker by design. You can feint from an attack but you can’t feint from a parry. You can accelerate your swings (frack your terminology) by using feint combos. And this information is, basically, only available to select members of the gaming community. Sure, we can all learn after several hundred hours … meanwhile the community is dying and the clans are going to die with them.



  • @The:

    But why does this matter? In competitive scrims, it’s not one TO match, it’s 2 rounds, with each team going from defense to offense. So even if offense has a harder time, both teams get the same chance, and whoever gets furthest the quickest wins.

    It doesn’t change the fundamentals.

    Doesn’t change the fundamentals, but the game is not 100% catered towards competitive play. This is mainly for pubs. Either way turtling becomes too easy, and I reckon ties will be too common if feinting was taken out, because most likely, both teams will successfully defend the same objective.

    @BillDoor:

    You can accelerate your swings (frack your terminology) by using feint combos. And this information is, basically, only available to select members of the gaming community.

    Well the feint nerf is going to include a 0.1 sec of down time after a feint, to keep faster-comboing to a minimum.

    As far as accelerating or deaccelerating attacks (real-time swings), this is actually shown in a loading screen tooltip. There’s no way only a select few have access to that information



  • The bullshit in this thread is grade A.
    Your ‘deductions’ are wrong.

    @NoVaLombardia:

    As far as accelerating or deaccelerating attacks (real-time swings)

    Did I say frack your terminology? I’m sure I did.



  • @BillDoor:

    Sure, we can all learn after several hundred hours … meanwhile the community is dying and the clans are going to die with them.

    Nothing to do with feints. Feints are inconsequential when it comes to team play and hard countered by a shield.

    Sure I understand feints are annoying when it comes to duels and you do not want to take a shield, which is why I suggested half damage for post feint attack.

    But ultimately to increase the number of players you need new content. Forum is primarily the 5% dedicated clan players who are important to keep the servers populated but do not drive in new business.



  • @gregcau:

    5% dedicated clan players who are important to keep the servers populated but do not drive in new business.

    I’d say 2% and I don’t see that many clan players playing the pubs unless they’re pub-stomping, honestly.


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