Daggers don't reach point blank



  • A person was holding still for this, side swipe with hunting knife and it didn’t even touch up. Literally ran up to him till I couldn’t go past him and tried knifing… Not a scratch…



  • Are you able to reproduce this bug?

    I’ve sometimes had issues being physically unable to backstab fleeing enemies, even hugging their back with the chase boost engaged, but never when they’re standing still.

    Although I have found that if you don’t look fairly far down to force your character to lean in closer to the enemy then the Broad/Thrusting Dagger Overheads are almost unable to make it past your collision radius.



  • Its because of its reach.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Its because of its reach.

    Captain obvious =P



  • Bots are sometimes good examples
    [youtubehd:1bq4a8iq]ZzyyC5kjUo4[/youtubehd:1bq4a8iq]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzyyC5kjUo4

    What I’ve noticed is that the collision for hitting something is only around the blade and if your arm is extending so far out that if you get to close your arm will pass through them and not landing a single blow. The third person model is probably not accurate to the first person model and changing the FOV can mess up scaling. Might I suggest using the world character model for first person viewing and just not render the head to prevent awkward inside head view?

    Also I don’t get how hitting works online, is it all server sided or is it a mixture of client side hit boxes or what?

    edit: I also notice with certain weapons with long poles will only have a hit collision near the top of the weapon creating some interesting misses.

    I see another issue as well where the game requires you to aim in first person to block successfully at the tip of weapons but in third person it maybe distorted and not accurate? Considering that the third person is more accurate to attacks than first person view.



  • Or maybe the arms just simply don’t extend far out enough to make fists or daggers playable…
    Or the players backside has collision that’s sticking to far out for a person behind them to get close enough to get into dagger or fist range…



  • You need to aim down more. You’re a little archer trying to hit the knight in the head. If you notice in that video every time you missed you were aiming high, and every time you hit you were aiming low. It’s nothing wrong with the hit detection in this case.

    As for the hit detection question - I believe hit detection is entirely client side. If the server lags you can walk up to someone and hit them in the head 2 or 3 times and when the server updates you see his head fly off. This is probably the only way to do hit detection, unfortunately, or the game would be unplayably laggy.



  • ^That helps puts things into perspective.

    Would it be best if I just played the game in third person considering first person isn’t accurate?

    Also it doesn’t make sense to me if that if a knight an a archer go head to head, one with dagger the other with sword and shield, that if both are extremely close the archers arm will pass through the shield sense it has no collision. Making the archer able to hit a knight,who has a tower shield, directly.

    In some cases with other classes that have a larger weapon that use either thrust or overhead swing will get the same effect despite there being a shield between the two characters, either because the weapon was already clipping through the shield or some part of the weapon that doesn’t have collision. Is this intentional or a design flaw? :?



  • Nabsterhax:
    I like how you always have an explanation even though there is obviously something fishy and there is a video proof for that. Of course the archer missed a few times (around 00:13) but there are some very obvious moments where the blade should have hit (00:30).

    And the 3rd person view kinda confirms the authors suspicion, it’s not at all a problem with reach, it’s exactly the opposite - the arms clip through the target and the weapon is basically on the other side. There are 2 problems with this:

    1. The 1st person is strongly misleading for the attacker who is given the impression of not being close enough (and is being forced to facehug even more) even though the opposite is true.

    2. The arms clipping thru parries can carry a weapon behind them.

    @Zipice:

    In some cases with other classes that have a larger weapon that use either thrust or overhead swing will get the same effect despite there being a shield between the two characters,

    Very good remark actually! It is true that sometimes I wonder how I killed that enemy with his large shield in my face. And it always happens with an overhead. This seems to be a pretty obvious solution.



  • I don’t agree with the above at all. Do another video and stick tracers on to see just where the dagger swing is going. I’m pretty sure you’ll find it just went over the shoulder or next to the arm at 0:30.

    I have never seen an example of weapons clipping through parries or blocks, ever. Plenty of times I’ve seen people complain about it when they simply expect their shield to aim up and block an overhead for them, or aim to the side and block that stab that’s sneaking around there.

    People not experienced with shields often try to look down so they can see where their opponent is and what he’s doing. Unfortunately they don’t seem to realise that if their eyes can see the blade then the blade can poke their eyes out.



  • If this was the case then I don’t see why in the tutorial they would ask you to look at the tip of the weapon when blocking?

    Though I already know this to be true through playing online but for your sole satisfaction in proving if it is absolutely true or not I would need a volunteer to actually hold still and block for solid video proof :?.

    Also what I’ve found from using aoc_drawtrace is that first and third person are different.
    First person swings are much higher than third person, half a meter at least.
    There had been occasions where a one handed sword thrusted to the back of an opponents head (clearly seeing the sword’s tip behind the head) not land.
    I also found that the blue hit detection is different from broad swords to daggers as daggers blue trace line does nothing and a Two handed sword scraps opponents and walls. (Not sure if it’s suppose to be different like that but who knows…)

    Unfortunately the AI is unpredictable and I could sit there and try to get a moment of shield clipping but it would too hard and random with out a real participant instead.



  • @NabsterHax:

    You need to aim down more. You’re a little archer trying to hit the knight in the head. If you notice in that video every time you missed you were aiming high, and every time you hit you were aiming low. It’s nothing wrong with the hit detection in this case.

    As for the hit detection question - I believe hit detection is entirely client side. If the server lags you can walk up to someone and hit them in the head 2 or 3 times and when the server updates you see his head fly off. This is probably the only way to do hit detection, unfortunately, or the game would be unplayably laggy.

    He was aiming at it’s abdomen region and LMB:ed him several times without hitting and without moving his aim successfully hit after like 5 swings…

    They are broken, their reach is 0. How qan they even have shorter range than fists?


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