Combo Fast Parry as an intuitive mechanic



  • From the Ask TBS forum:

    ! @SlyGoat:
    !
    !
    ! > I don’t think feinting out of a normal windup into a parry is really a problem - you’re expending an extra 15 stamina to do it.
    ! >
    ! > The combo feint to parry is another matter, though. The significantly higher stamina drain for feinting out of a combo is something that is partially made as a drawback to this tactic - removing it completely would be confusing and detrimental to gameplay overall, making combat favor faster weapons that can afford to make more mistakes. Like feints in general it’s just a little too powerful right now, but I don’t think necessarily that it’s bad for the game.
    !
    !
    If Combo-to-parry is to be an intended mechanic in the game, I suggest removing the need to feint into the combo.

    Instead, simply right-click to combo into parry during the last half of a swing.
    In other words, remove the need to feint and just let parry be a natural combo.

    This would allow new players to be able to access this as an intuitive game mechanic (even if they don’t know why it works), instead of being limited to clan players or people who spend way too much time on the forums.

    [subscript:3eo3kg8v]This thread is not about the merits or use of combo-feint-to-parry. Whatever side of the argument you are on, there are plenty of threads to yell “Learn2PlayNOOB!” at each other. This thread is specific to the idea presented. Please do not hijack this thread or I will ask Kimi to rewrite your text.[/subscript:3eo3kg8v]



  • I play without the use of feints, which makes me makes me more reliant on footwork.
    The most common way is punishing the opponent for a missed swing, but the fast parry almost makes this impossible. ( I think that mistakes should be punished )

    the other side of the coin is that it’s nearly impossible to fight a dodgy man at arms without the use of this mechanic/bug.



  • I actually agree with this.



  • @Martin:

    I actually agree with this.



  • Nice idea my brother. I too being someone who does not feint. I often must rely on smart-footwork, flanking to score the kills and ultimately punishing poor bastards for making mistakes.

    As good as some ‘Elite Players’ may be, they too make mistakes, you do not always get an opportunity to flank in a free hit on them, however… if you do fight them toe-to-toe and you notice a mis-swing.

    Well, you just cant get in that little hit! Often by this stage of the fight, their allies have realised the potential ganking, and you have missed your opportunity!

    I often find my self, running away… keeping an eye out for another opportunity to topple and 'Elite Player’



  • Would love a developer comment.



  • I’ll admit it took me a couple of reads to understand what the suggestion was.

    Quite a cool idea indeed.

    It would allow slow weapons to defend themselves after a whiff the same as combo-feint-parry does now, but the key difference is that you actually have to have situational awareness and foresight to do this, rather than brainlessly comboing after every swing and being allowed to parry in an instant if the enemy starts a swing when you miss.

    I like this idea a lot.

    Couple it with removing the ability to parry/block after a combo-feint until the time the regular Recovery would have been finished, and you have a way of dealing with the issue without nerfing slow weapons… instead you’re nerfing lack of skill in dealing with your own whiffs.

    Also I think it’d be fair if this combo fast parry costed a small amount of stamina to perform, since your character is exerting himself to cut his recovery short. It’d also probably be a good idea if this stamina cost was proportional to the time saved by combo-fast-parry compared to Recovery+parry, ranging from 0 cost (no time saved) to 10 cost (Maul overhead/horizontal, most time saved)



  • @Dibbz:

    nerfing lack of skill in dealing with your own whiffs.

    L2PNub? :?

    Opening the unintended exploit as a more accessible mechanic to players while still rewarding high-level play. This isn’t nerfing bad play - it’s making it natural to learn the mechanic.



  • Now I’m really confused.

    If this isn’t a more balanced replacement for combo-feint-parry then what is it? A more difficult-to-use version of the same mechanic that is inferior to its parent mechanic which it coexists with for some reason?

    And how would new players learn combo-feint-parry more easily via this, when it is executed in a completely different manner (parry during swing vs attack during swing then feint during combo windup then parry)?



  • I’m sorry for the confusion. I certainly didn’t imply what you posted above. There is still depth, is what I meant.
    This is indeed a replacement of the current access to the fast parry.



  • @BillDoor:

    […]
    Instead, simply right-click to combo into parry during the last half of a swing.
    In other words, remove the need to feint and just let parry be a natural combo.
    […]

    So you’re saying… allow me to parry in the last half of release, rather than having having to combo, feint the combo, and parry?

    Attack -> Miss -> Parry in release (or recovery?)
    vs
    Attack -> Miss -> Combo -> Feint -> Parry

    Am I getting that right? Because if so, you are making the misses even less dangerous since you can just cut off the release to block (or do you mean the recovery stage?) instead of having to take the time and stamina to combo and feint first.



  • I’d say you’re getting it pretty much right.

    ! Why would you think it ridiculous to make it even easier to access a mechanic that obviously breaks the game’s fundamentals? Isn’t that the whole purpose of turning something that was first an unintended exploit into a balanced mechanic?



  • The way I see it there are just some experienced players who want to preserve their tricks.

    If you miss youre fucked while recovering. Thats how it was intended. If it breaks some weapons fix their recovery times instead of defending a trick that gives vets a chance to avoid it while newbs cant. Its totally counter intuitve that in order to be able to parry sooner you would continue to attack then cancel it.

    Imo combo feint to parry needs to go.



  • @Towe:

    The way I see it there are just some experienced players who want to preserve their tricks.

    If you miss youre fucked while recovering. Thats how it was intended. If it breaks some weapons fix their recovery times instead of defending a trick that gives vets a chance to avoid it while newbs cant. Its totally counter intuitve that in order to be able to parry sooner you would continue to attack then cancel it.

    Imo combo feint to parry needs to go.

    And yet the idea presented, if you’d read my post, makes it so that misses are even less punished because instead of having to combo into another attack, feint it and then parry, I can just cut off the last half of my attack’s swing and move directly into a parry, never leaving myself vulnerable at all and using less stamina in the process.

    How is that a good thing?



  • Youre right, but at least it makes it useable by all.

    What I hate the most is the gap between the new players and the veterans that is created by unintuitive tricks. It just makes no sense that you can parry faster if you continue to attack.

    So for me its this:
    Best would be to have no combo feint to parry
    2nd best the idea here, stam loss can easily be added to make it on par with feinting out of a combo
    last is the vet trick it is now



  • @Towe:

    Youre right, but at least it makes it useable by all.

    What I hate the most is the gap between the new players and the veterans that is created by a learning curve.

    FTFY.

    Well, not that this technique is at all difficult anyway. Once you get into the habit (which is basically spam combos and double-tap parry and aim whenever something might hit you) it’s pretty easy to run around being basically invincible until you run out of stamina.


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