Enable shields for spear vanguards.



  • People want a spear an shield class. But torn banner isn’t long to make new classes and a spear and sheild class on its own is kinda reatrictive.

    But how about add the buckler and heater shield to the vanguards loadout.

    Personally I think vanguards with shields would be OP. But that’s with swords and the other polearms.

    So only enable shields with the spears not the other weapons. As the spear is more of a support weapon while the other two types of weapons are more for crashing through lines while others support him.

    So the spear can deal less damage, be a bit shorter but faster.

    A new set of animations would need to be made. Unless you use the sheild bash attack that te javelin has and the other jav stab. But a horizontal strike and charge animation would need to be made. Unless you want to make a new set of animations.

    I think this would be a good compromise for everyone’s want of a spear shield unit. Also minimal work on torn banners end. In comparison to making a class.



  • Yes, this is my thinking too if they don’t want to add a dedicated supportive melee class. Just give the supportive role to a few new Vanguard weapons along with shields.

    It’s like how the Knight can only use the buckler if he picks the flail, the Vanguard could only use shield if he picks a spear. Although I think the heater and the buckler are too small to be used by a spearman in a defensive/supportive role, he should get like a kite shield, a bigger round shield (bucklers are no bigger than 45cm across), or a bigger heater shield (I know these exists, I just don’t know what to google for since “heater shield” just brings up the regular smaller version, so I drew it: )

    And yeah, TBS would need to make a bunch of new animations since spear fighting is a bit different. Like how you always have the spear ready pointing at your enemy, they’d need to make something like that when you hold a shield block.

    [image:3pcyi2l0]http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/136/9/b/sergeant_by_savagebeatings-d65hbgb.jpg[/image:3pcyi2l0]



  • A nice idea but I dont think playing a VG with a shield and a shortspear would be worth it. Personally I´d rather go for the regular spear to get those thrusts going. Yes, Thrusts, YOU NEED TO THRUST LIKE A MAN!!!



  • @funthomass:

    A nice idea but I dont think playing a VG with a shield and a shortspear would be worth it. Personally I´d rather go for the regular spear to get those thrusts going. Yes, Thrusts, YOU NEED TO THRUST LIKE A MAN!!!

    Personally, I think the long spear weapon should be remade so that you can’t stab people who are too close. Seriously, how do they do that? And swinging the spear and hitting with the shaft should just do like 10 damage. A spear that long without a shield is nothing you want to fight outside of a formation of many spears anyways.



  • That sort of applies to all two-handed and most one-handed weapons, though. It’s silly to single out spears.



  • @dudeface:

    That sort of applies to all two-handed and most one-handed weapons, though. It’s silly to single out spears.

    Then just shorten down its effective area! It’s frickin’ taller than a man, how can you hurt people who are within punch reach?! When someone gets passed your spear you immediately pull your sword.



  • @SavageBeatings:

    @funthomass:

    A nice idea but I dont think playing a VG with a shield and a shortspear would be worth it. Personally I´d rather go for the regular spear to get those thrusts going. Yes, Thrusts, YOU NEED TO THRUST LIKE A MAN!!!

    Personally, I think the spear weapon should be remade so that you can’t stab people who are too close. Seriously, how do they do that? And swinging the spear and hitting with the shaft should just do like 10 damage. A spear that long without a shield is nothing you want to fight outside of a formation of many spears anyways.

    And render spears more unpopular than they are now?

    And if I whack you across the face with a solid stick there’s a good chance it will cause serious damage, possibly even killing in one blow.

    The spears aren’t too long. In comparison to a pike. They already have a supportive role. They do keep people at a distance and they are very useful in fights with multiple people on both sides.

    Adding a shield will give it more of a defensive role. The vanguard isn’t really a defensive class currently. And the spears currently only really give support. Any archer or someone who gets up close can kill a spear vanguard trying to defend so they don’t try. A shield would make the class a bit more flexible. Flexibility in a game is what people like.

    And I didn’t mean make a bunch of new spear weapons. Just use the ones they have. As with the knights swords if its used with a shield its shorter, does less damage, faster and has a slower combo time (not that spears can really combo anyway). Adding a bunch of new spears would serve no purpose. A shield and spear user would need to hold the weapon closer to the middle of the spear anyway to get a proper grip on it making it shorter.

    Using the current 3 vanguard spears would do no harm. Though I’ve never seen a brandistock and shield used before. In fact thinking about it I’ve never even heard of a real weapon like the brandistock.
    I know there are military forks and yes they were used with shields. But I think he brandistock is a made up weapon.









  • @lemonater47:

    And render spears more unpopular than they are now?

    No, by adding stuff to spears like stab comboing, and holding it pointed forward in an “attack ready”-mode while walking, for example.

    And if I whack you across the face with a solid stick there’s a good chance it will cause serious damage, possibly even killing in one blow.

    Whacking someone across his great helm with something like a rake would doubtfully have the same effect.

    The spears aren’t too long. In comparison to a pike. They already have a supportive role. They do keep people at a distance and they are very useful in fights with multiple people on both sides.

    I didn’t say the spears are too long. I said that they are long, and therefore when an enemy gets passed its only lethal part which is like 7 feet infront of you. Between that point and your heart is no place you could handle an enemy using a spear.

    Adding a shield will give it more of a defensive role. The vanguard isn’t really a defensive class currently. And the spears currently only really give support. Any archer or someone who gets up close can kill a spear vanguard trying to defend so they don’t try. A shield would make the class a bit more flexible. Flexibility in a game is what people like.

    That’s why I’m more for adding a defensive support class, but TBS has said they will not add new classes, so the spear-shield combo will have to be attributed to the Vanguard. Those people already using the spear weapons with the Vanguard are already playing defense, I guess, so you could say the Vanguard is somewhat a defensive class.

    And I didn’t mean make a bunch of new spear weapons. Just use the ones they have. As with the knights swords if its used with a shield its shorter, does less damage, faster and has a slower combo time (not that spears can really combo anyway). Adding a bunch of new spears would serve no purpose. A shield and spear user would need to hold the weapon closer to the middle of the spear anyway to get a proper grip on it making it shorter.

    There needs to be at least one shorter spear. The two-handed spear is too long to use in one hand, even if you shorten the grip the extending part behind it does not help in making it preferable in a one-handed grip. Oh, and as long as you keep the spear rested against your elbow you can use the entire length of it. No need to shorten it, unless it is, as I’ve already mentioned, a longer two-handed spear (longer than like 7 feet, or something?). A good one-handed spear is a bit taller than you are. If it’s taller than that, use it in two hands.

    [image:r6mdx83f]http://th03.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/111/3/4/spearman_attack_3_by_savagebeatings-d62huw8.jpg[/image:r6mdx83f]



  • I was just going along with the same effects of holding a two handed sword in one hand. Though I have no idea why the two handed sword shrinks when held in one hand. With the spear you would need to hold it further up the spear making the useful end shorter.

    That’s the extent of realism. The rest is for gameplay reasons.

    Making a new class would kinda be pointless. Especially when you can make the classes take up a variety of roles. That’s what they have done well. I just want the roles to be expanded a bit more.

    So shields just for spear vanguards. Buckler and heater shield is what I was thinking. Maybe the kite shield but I don’t know. Historically medieval spearman had round buckler shields of heater shields or small kite shields. The shape of a kite shield but the size of a heater shield. Chivalrys kite shield is almost 6 feet high its longer than the tower shield.

    The buckler though its weakness is the best shield for protecting your face. Tower shield being the worst for that. Random side note.

    And not beings able to do damage just because the enemy is close sucks dicks. That’s mount and blade bullshit. At least in chivalry you can do a slash but it’ll still suck.

    And by the look of things the normal spear looks about 7-7.5 feet. I mean the halberd isn’t much shorter and that’s only slightly taller than the vanguard. You can tell when he does the battle cry animation for the halberd he stands it next to himself. And the halberd is the 3rd longest weapon.



  • I’m still thinking kite shield and round shield for spear Vanguard. At least that’s mostly what I see spearmen depicted as and reenacted with - kite shields and round shields. For example this awesome video:

    7pZc-iXbucM

    In my opinion, the heater shield in Chivalry woudn’t really fit with a spear, aesthetically.

    Also, TBS has the buckler in the game kind of wrong. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t a buckler supposed to be really really small like this?

    [image:1h9eerru]http://www.preferredarms.com/images/weapons/large/shields/2-All-Bucklers-comparison.jpg[/image:1h9eerru]

    Seems like they got a regular round shield. Nitpicking, I know. Also off topic, but I would like a bigger round shield in Chivalry, like this:

    [image:1h9eerru]http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/shield_covered.jpg[/image:1h9eerru]



  • @SavageBeatings:

    I’m still thinking kite shield and round shield for spear Vanguard. At least that’s mostly what I see spearmen depicted as and reenacted with - kite shields and round shields. For example this awesome video:

    7pZc-iXbucM

    In my opinion, the heater shield in Chivalry woudn’t really fit with a spear, aesthetically.

    Also, TBS has the buckler in the game kind of wrong. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t a buckler supposed to be really really small like this?

    [image:340j5993]http://www.preferredarms.com/images/weapons/large/shields/2-All-Bucklers-comparison.jpg[/image:340j5993]

    Seems like they got a regular round shield. Nitpicking, I know. Also off topic, but I would like a bigger round shield in Chivalry, like this:

    [image:340j5993]http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/shield_covered.jpg[/image:340j5993]

    I was basing if off archeological digs and paintings from the times in England and France. Spearman didn’t really have big shields. Nowhere near the size of the chivalry kite shield. They had heater shields and as you said the big round shields. The buckler isn’t that small especially of you see it on someones back you see how how it actually is. It isn’t as big as the round shield they mostly use but its big enough.

    A buckler is just a small light shield that’s used to block melee attacks quickly. Bucklers are often doubled up as weapons as they are small and fast enough to do some damage effectively. The chivalry buckler is just a damn big buckler. Its wooden so its still light. And the word “buckler” sounds more interesting than small round shield.



  • @lemonater47:

    I was basing if off archeological digs and paintings from the times in England and France. Spearman didn’t really have big shields. Nowhere near the size of the chivalry kite shield. They had heater shields and as you said the big round shields. The buckler isn’t that small especially of you see it on someones back you see how how it actually is. It isn’t as big as the round shield they mostly use but its big enough.

    Yeah, and as I said, depictions that I’ve seen (paintings) show spearmen with kite shields too :/ (either kites, or they are depicted using spears two-handed)

    A buckler is just a small light shield that’s used to block melee attacks quickly. Bucklers are often doubled up as weapons as they are small and fast enough to do some damage effectively. The chivalry buckler is just a damn big buckler. Its wooden so its still light. And the word “buckler” sounds more interesting than small round shield.

    Wikipedia (shut up) says a buckler is no bigger than 45cm in width and it was used as a companion weapon and a fast parry shield. 45 cm is about as long as my arm is from the elbow to the tips of my fingers, so that’s a pretty small shield. And all the depictions and reenactment pictures I see of it, it’s not that much bigger than a fist.

    [image:1j4adrh5]http://thirstysoulhungryheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/buckler-combat.jpg[/image:1j4adrh5]

    The definition of a buckler seems to be a very very small shield used as a companion weapon rather than a shield. So that’s not a buckler we see in Chivalry. But you are right that “buckler” sounds more interesting than “small round shield”. Just like a lot of other things in Chivalry that are inaccurate (the dane axe for example, whose decision was to make it a small one-handed weapon? It’s a frickin’ two-handed axe!)



  • That Dane Axe looks a wee bit larger than the one I have seen in-game.

    I don’t think an MAA could even lift that thing.



  • @SavageBeatings:

    @lemonater47:

    I was basing if off archeological digs and paintings from the times in England and France. Spearman didn’t really have big shields. Nowhere near the size of the chivalry kite shield. They had heater shields and as you said the big round shields. The buckler isn’t that small especially of you see it on someones back you see how how it actually is. It isn’t as big as the round shield they mostly use but its big enough.

    Yeah, and as I said, depictions that I’ve seen (paintings) show spearmen with kite shields too :/ (either kites, or they are depicted using spears two-handed)

    A buckler is just a small light shield that’s used to block melee attacks quickly. Bucklers are often doubled up as weapons as they are small and fast enough to do some damage effectively. The chivalry buckler is just a damn big buckler. Its wooden so its still light. And the word “buckler” sounds more interesting than small round shield.

    Wikipedia (shut up) says a buckler is no bigger than 45cm in width and it was used as a companion weapon and a fast parry shield. 45 cm is about as long as my arm is from the elbow to the tips of my fingers, so that’s a pretty small shield. And all the depictions and reenactment pictures I see of it, it’s not that much bigger than a fist.

    [image:1xqbd1c1]http://thirstysoulhungryheart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/buckler-combat.jpg[/image:1xqbd1c1]

    The definition of a buckler seems to be a very very small shield used as a companion weapon rather than a shield. So that’s not a buckler we see in Chivalry. But you are right that “buckler” sounds more interesting than “small round shield”. Just like a lot of other things in Chivalry that are inaccurate (the dane axe for example, whose decision was to make it a small one-handed weapon? It’s a frickin’ two-handed axe!)

    They have shields that look very similar to kite shileds but no where near the size of the one in
    chivalry.

    And 45 centimetres is about the size of the buckler in the game.



  • @lemonater47:

    They have shields that look very similar to kite shileds but no where near the size of the one in
    chivalry.

    A shield that looks very similar to a kite shield is still a kite shield. Just like how round shield and heater shields comes in all kinds of different size and shapes (well, the round shield is always round.)

    [image:2b4m4zdg]http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/images/armour_images/shields_heater.jpg[/image:2b4m4zdg]

    ^ Those above are still called heater shields.

    And 45 centimetres is about the size of the buckler in the game.

    Man-at-Arms must be very tiny men, then. I measured a circle that’s 45cm wide and it looked like this when I placed my fist in the middle:

    [image:2b4m4zdg]http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/260/clenchedfist.jpg[/image:2b4m4zdg]

    Now, in Chivalry the buckler looks like this (well, I guess that’s from earlier version, but the buckler still looks big IMO)

    [image:2b4m4zdg]http://www.chivalrythegame.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Amaa-205x300.png[/image:2b4m4zdg]

    But what they should have in Chivalry, and what they apparently had, is/was this:

    [image:2b4m4zdg]http://www.chivalrythegame.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/swordbuckler.jpg[/image:2b4m4zdg]

    That’s a realy frickin’ buckler.

    @dudeface:

    That Dane Axe looks a wee bit larger than the one I have seen in-game.

    I don’t think an MAA could even lift that thing.

    Exactly. The dane axe was a big weapon that was feared because… it was big! Why did they turn it into a hatchet?



  • @lemonater47:

    @SavageBeatings:

    I’m still thinking kite shield and round shield for spear Vanguard. At least that’s mostly what I see spearmen depicted as and reenacted with - kite shields and round shields. For example this awesome video:

    7pZc-iXbucM

    In my opinion, the heater shield in Chivalry woudn’t really fit with a spear, aesthetically.

    Also, TBS has the buckler in the game kind of wrong. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t a buckler supposed to be really really small like this?

    [image:3trqsjnw]http://www.preferredarms.com/images/weapons/large/shields/2-All-Bucklers-comparison.jpg[/image:3trqsjnw]

    Seems like they got a regular round shield. Nitpicking, I know. Also off topic, but I would like a bigger round shield in Chivalry, like this:

    [image:3trqsjnw]http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/pix/shield_covered.jpg[/image:3trqsjnw]

    I was basing if off archeological digs and paintings from the times in England and France. Spearman didn’t really have big shields. Nowhere near the size of the chivalry kite shield. They had heater shields and as you said the big round shields. The buckler isn’t that small especially of you see it on someones back you see how how it actually is. It isn’t as big as the round shield they mostly use but its big enough.

    A buckler is just a small light shield that’s used to block melee attacks quickly. Bucklers are often doubled up as weapons as they are small and fast enough to do some damage effectively. The chivalry buckler is just a damn big buckler. Its wooden so its still light. And the word “buckler” sounds more interesting than small round shield.

    I’m not sure what archeological digs you’re talking about in regards to the kite shield. Digs don’t usually dig up shields because they’re made of wood, they tend to just find any metal remains such as the boss (the round metal hand guard in the middle of some shields) and the rim if it had one.

    The kite shield in Chivalry is a fairly accurate size.



  • Buckler sounds better than small round shield obviously.

    And many larger shileds did have metal rims around it. A kite shields size is virtually limitless and yes you did get ones the size the chivalry ones (Irish ones were that big, though they rarely had metal rims). And Calvery kite shileds were generally very small and it had to be to futon a horse.

    Bit I’m talking game balance here and I don’t know about te vanguard having a big shield at all. Though against projectiles the heater is usually better than the kite in game. The kite shild generally leaves a gap. And that gap shows the torso.

    Tower shields are rarer than pavise shields. Only really used during sieges. One man could hold off many with it. Bit it was pretty useless on open ground unless you were a tank.

    Really it doesn’t really matter much a shield for spear troops would make the vanguard more than just a defensive class.


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