Combofeint to parry



  • After having pumped 460 hours into the game, after having seen friends turn into amazing players that joined highly competitive clans, I am done with the game.

    I will not be the first to cast a stone to “exploiters” since I use lookdowns, mousedragging and all that stuff as well, there is however one thing that kills the game for me. The feint-to-parry.
    I am not in the know about what precisely will change with the whole feinting mechanism so please don’t shoot me but this COMBOfeint-to-parrystuff is highly frustrating.
    Will this be altered in any way in the future?
    Until then I think I just want to thank the community for this game, it’s been very refreshing and addicting but I’m done.
    I might check out the Bushido mod later on though, looks like fun.

    Thanks

    TL;DR: read the underlined words.

    Edit: thanks Dubjay, combofeint to parry was what I was looking for.



  • @Olikopter:

    this feint-to-parrystuff is highly frustrating.

    I feel your pain. It’s ridiculous the way this is being used now. I’m probably not far behind.
    The worst is when someone tells you how easy it is and how they couldn’t play at a ‘competitive’ level without it. Then they show up on the pub servers to stomp casual players with it.



  • Hi Olikopter, there is no real deal with feint to parry, which is totally legit. A combo feint parry however might be the mechanic that you are looking for, I personally don’t think that there is any problem with is, its a bit of advanced gameplay i would say, and its fairly easy to counter if you are up against someone who heavily relies on that move.

    I would like to say that it needs a nerf though since you can perform it too quickly, a fix to this would be adding a cooldown on parry after releasing an attack. When you actually windup for the second attack during a combo you should be able to feint parry since it would just be like a regular feint parry. In other words, instead of having it like now, that you can parry in the end of the first swing if you follow up with a combo, you would instead have to wait for the windup of the second attack animation to properly play before you feint to parry.



  • I agree, it is bad.



  • I remember good old days before people figured out that move. I played with the grandmace and with good timings and knowledge of weapons ranges I could punish people if they missed with their swings (that I tried to provoke and dodge). Nowdays, if somebody misses they can still go for combo and instantly parry you so it’s rarely the range play now.

    I thought about this and Dubjay’s solution sounds pretty good. I think it would make combat system much more interesting with more styles to choose from (I’d love to punish people for their greedy swings once again)



  • Well, sorry to tell you that but if you want to be a competitive knight or vanguard then you HAVE to adapt and use it.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Well, sorry to tell you that but if you want to be a competitive knight or vanguard then you HAVE to adapt and use it.

    Yes, everyone knows. And everyone does it. It is not hard to do. It just makes the game worse, is all.

    Its described as an exploit in this thread

    viewtopic.php?f=87&t=13261

    On the very first page someone made a very accurate observation.
    @Falc:

    A huge nerf to dodge would have to come with the “fix” for combo-feint-parry.

    In the ask TBS section, answering a question about M@arms dodge
    @SlyGoat:

    … Now that we’ve smoothed it out, we can go forward with a nerf and see what feels more appropriate.

    viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13463

    Facehugging is getting nerfd too evidently

    viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13453

    So with all these epic changes maybe combofeint to parry will have to be removed. We shall see.



  • @JCash:

    (…)

    @Tibberius:

    • Feinting out of a combo windup should have a .1 longer recovery than feinting out of a normal windup.
    • In addition to the longer feint recovery, increase stamina cost of feinting out of combo to 25, and apply the .15 increased unfeintable window at the end of windups to combo windups as well.

    Mind that these changes are not 100% sure.
    source



  • What’s wrong with combo > feint > parry? It feels rather necessary when fighting someone with a faster weapon.



  • You guys finally figured out how dumb this is?

    After how long?



  • @Dr.Nick:

    What’s wrong with combo > feint > parry? It feels rather necessary when fighting someone with a faster weapon.

    It’s the expectation that all main weapons should be equally viable 1v1 that ruins this game. Personally I think the secondaries need buffs so they are better options than keeping out a slower weapon. :?



  • Although I use this tactic fairly frequently myself I can see why it’s silly, breaks the mechanics of combat and encourages comboing at all times regardless of situation.

    Especially on slow weapons, where the long recovery is meant to punish whiffs, combo-feint-parrying means there’s no risk involved as long as you just keep swinging.
    A Maul can parry after a miss with almost the speed of a dagger. It’s just silly.

    Without the ability to punish whiffs properly the only ways to get a hit in involves either offensive feinting or cheesing the hit-tracers.

    I like BillDoor’s suggestion for addressing the combo-feint-to-parry issue without nerfing slower weapons in the process.



  • Least favorite thing about the game right now. Essentially it is just an a way to exploit feint parry to completely remove recovery times from the game. Done correctly, there is absolutely no time move in and attack. If you try to move in before recovery starts to get a hit in, a player can just drag the end of their swing into you. If you wait till the active part of the swing is over like how the game is supposed to work, the player can parry immediately. Really just no risk for a horizontal swing that can hit things 360 degrees.

    Visually it looks completely ridiculous as the animation still shows the player in recovery until your attack magically gets parried by nothing.

    That all said, I don’t find it such a problem in competitive TO as there is much better team play going on. Lot more flank based team fights to the point where it hardly comes into play at least in my experience.

    I would say the only fix for this would to be add time after the feint where you cannot parry equal to whatever the recovery time would have been. You can still attack after the feint.

    For those who complain about it being a way to counter faster weapons, you have a secondary for a reason. In fact, you have some of the fastest weapons in the game available to you as a knight or vanguard.

    I just don’t see how missing an attack with a sword that can one shot some classes and is 6 times the length of one handers deserves its recovery time to be removed.



  • Considering how much stamina it takes to miss a 2H swing, combo, then feint, then parry, it’s not broken at all, especially with upcoming changes further increasing stamina cost.

    If you force a Knight to combo feint to parry twice, you’ve got him on the ropes. Considering that can be done with 2 dodges, you win the stamina fight and gain a free hit. After that you just need to not die to a quick counter-stab or something and the fight’s over.

    Without feint to parry, it’s impossible to win vs a good MAA anyway, since it’s simple to dodge in and attack during swing recovery and a Knight cannot approach an MAA without getting a successful block first.



  • @BillDoor:

    @Dr.Nick:

    What’s wrong with combo > feint > parry? It feels rather necessary when fighting someone with a faster weapon.

    It’s the expectation that all main weapons should be equally viable 1v1 that ruins this game. Personally I think the secondaries need buffs so they are better options than keeping out a slower weapon. :?

    Well I certainly don’t think all the weapons are equal in a 1vs1 fight but you at least still have a chance like it is now.



  • Really fast Combo feint to parry breaks the combat on fundamental level and lowers the skill ceiling and makes the game alot easier. Definetly needs to be removed or altered so it doesnt bypass anything

    PS: nobody can hit me when im using the norse sword + this, ever, unless they feint.



  • I don’t share concern over the mechanic. I see it as furthering one’s ability to manipulate his sword more like you could in real life, but at a cost, just as you would expect. People who use feint to parry too liberally against me find their stamina is insufficient to the task, and pay the price for that.

    This is even more pronounced with the upcoming beta patch, which increases the cost to combo feint to 25, from 15. Very significant.

    @CRUSHED:

    Really fast Combo feint to parry breaks the combat on fundamental level and lowers the skill ceiling and makes the game alot easier. Definetly needs to be removed or altered so it doesnt bypass anything

    PS: nobody can hit me when im using the norse sword + this, ever, unless they feint.

    Sure I can. You aren’t God. And I am the real super sand. Hell I’d only need kaioken against you.



  • Fight, fight, fight!



  • Sure I can. You aren’t God. And I am the real super sand. Hell I’d only need kaioken against you.

    He is one of the best players in this game. He defeat you.



  • Someone should post a video showcasing the problem in detail. I am not completely aware of this issue myself.


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