A plea to TBS



  • @SlyGoat:

    1. You’re supposed to feint. It’s a game mechanic we want players to utilize, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. The no-feint playstyle was started as a protest of the feint mechanic being too luck based; we’re cutting down on this to make it something entirely skill and timing based. It would be impossible to balance feints to be useful but not broken while at the same time catering to the no-feint style of play.

    I thought it was pretty obviouse why Chivalry was such a success in the beginning. But the more patches TBS slaps at us the more I think they have no fucking clue.

    The number one feature why Chivalry is fun is DIVERSITY. Make a buttload of attacks, make a buttload of countermeasures. Then let the player decide what they want to use. balance a little bit so they are all almost equaly successfull. And there u go a ton load of fun.

    All TBS seams to do is trying to balance there ONE and only supercalifragilisticexpialidocious attack and counter combo. Don’t they realize that they game will be fucking boring when they actually would achieve this somehere in the next 50 years? Feint should be one in many possible methods. And all methods should be counterable NOT ONE method should be luck based. The outcome would be decided by the methods u chose and how good ur opponent can react to them and if u can supries him by an attack he didn’t anticipate. This works better the more methods there are in the game. If there is only one method left in the game this method HAS TO BE luck based.

    nuff said
    Tell me if I’m crazy or if I hit the nail on the head.

    TL/DR Increase Diversity don’t kill it!



  • I can not, for the life of me, understand the point or purpose of the feint mechanic in this game. It does nothing but interupt a jolly good swordfight with a “let’s play toss the coin” at random intervals.

    If feinting is “diversity” they can stick diversity where the sun doesn’t shine.




  • All I ever wanted was a scythe and a no-feint server option.



  • @Panzerlang:

    I can not, for the life of me, understand the point or purpose of the feint mechanic in this game. It does nothing but interupt a jolly good swordfight with a “let’s play toss the coin” at random intervals.

    If feinting is “diversity” they can stick diversity where the sun doesn’t shine.

    JCash you need to learn to play



  • @gregcau:

    @Panzerlang:

    I can not, for the life of me, understand the point or purpose of the feint mechanic in this game. It does nothing but interupt a jolly good swordfight with a “let’s play toss the coin” at random intervals.

    If feinting is “diversity” they can stick diversity where the sun doesn’t shine.

    JCash you need to learn to play

    Eh? JCash? :?

    It has nothing to do with “learning to play”. I can learn to play odds & evens too, doesn’t make it anything more than a game of luck.

    Feinting has to be the lamest mechanic I’ve come across in a game since bunny-hopping. It adds nothing, takes much and reduces the game to a form of russian roulette. Why interupt the skill-dynamic of ‘strike-parry-strike’ with a dumbass random luck parameter? Do the devs think it adds an extra layer of depth/complexity? It doesn’t, it’s just a cheap gimmick that bears about as much relevance to reality as the flick-parry.

    But if that analysis doesn’t float your boat, consider this…it has to be the most frustrating aspect of this game and I’d wager a great deal of money that it’s responsible for the greatest percentage of players who have given up playing and bad-mouthed the game to prospective purchasers.

    There’s enough of a demanding skillset to learn with having to time different-speed weapons against the flick-parry without having the feint to break the camel’s back. But I guess the loss of over 20k players in a handful of months has already said that loud and clear, if only there were ears to take heed of the message.



  • Guys this is not about feint only.
    Example?

    Face hugging was an attack method. One may argue that it was overpowered, but instead of adding a counter, like fast kick, they added a force field bubble to get rid of it entierly. This is, what will make the game dull and boring in the end.



  • @Panzerlang:

    @gregcau:

    @Panzerlang:

    I can not, for the life of me, understand the point or purpose of the feint mechanic in this game. It does nothing but interupt a jolly good swordfight with a “let’s play toss the coin” at random intervals.

    If feinting is “diversity” they can stick diversity where the sun doesn’t shine.

    JCash you need to learn to play

    Eh? JCash? :?

    It has nothing to do with “learning to play”.

    JCash2, his older brother, friend whatever.

    It has everything to do with learning to play. Watch high level players in the new Beta and you will see they rarely fall for feints because they wait until the last opportunity to parry.

    If someone starts to wind up and you are immediately parrying you are doing it wrong.



  • @restinpieces:

    Guys this is not about feint only.
    Example?

    Face hugging was an attack method. One may argue that it was overpowered, but instead of adding a counter, like fast kick, they added a force field bubble to get rid of it entierly. This is, what will make the game dull and boring in the end.

    The thing is though, in real life, it would have been entirely rational for a lightly armoured chap to wrap himself around a plated knight and find a slot to drive a dagger through the mail. I guess face-hugging simulates that (and adds ‘diversity’).

    And do you apply this need for “diversity” to all game modes equally? I’d suggest there’s room for much more of it in a TO battle than a duel. The duel servers should have far less of it in fact; MMAs against plated knights is an absurd matchup for example, even more so projectile weapons vs edged weapons.

    How many of these anomolies go toward putting off new players?



  • Its not random at all.

    You make the decision to block. He makes the decision to feint.

    No randomness in that at all.

    Try ducking if he feints and hope its not an overhead. Jumping out of the way works quite well with overheads. Even though its sounds like it won’t.

    I found out today there’s a mentality behind getting feinted. Most people will just stand there saying oh shit I’ve been feinted I’m gonna get hit in a second.

    I found one guy who gets feinted, then ducks. To the complete surprise of the opponent.



  • @gregcau:

    JCash2, his older brother, friend whatever.

    It has everything to do with learning to play. Watch high level players in the new Beta and you will see they rarely fall for feints because they wait until the last opportunity to parry.

    If someone starts to wind up and you are immediately parrying you are doing it wrong.

    This isn’t about doing something “right” or “wrong”, this is about an opinion regarding a mechanic. In my opinion there is a sufficiency of required and enjoyable skill to be had from matching strike against parry without adding an absolutely frustrating and dynamic-wrecking feature like the feint. Oh, so a handful of people are happy to grasp that nettle and eat it too? Good for them…and good luck finding players to fight as it not only puts off existing players but prospective purchasers too.

    There is a point at which too much becomes too much and the feint mechanic is it. Currently I deal with it by ignoring it and also not bothering to parry any more, I use movement to try to avoid strikes. Most people, in my opinion, simply stop playing and move on.

    If you were “right” though it would be a pyrrhic victory, what with the loss of over 20k players I’ve already mentioned.

    tl:dr…the game has been made too hard and frustrating, mostly by the feint mechanic. Those who have ‘mastered’ it…enjoy your triumph against the ever-dwindling number of opponents.



  • @lemonater47:

    Its not random at all.

    You make the decision to block. He makes the decision to feint.

    No randomness in that at all.

    Try ducking if he feints and hope its not an overhead. Jumping out of the way works quite well with overheads. Even though its sounds like it won’t.

    I found out today there’s a mentality behind getting feinted. Most people will just stand there saying oh shit I’ve been feinted I’m gonna get hit in a second.

    I found one guy who gets feinted, then ducks. To the complete surprise of the opponent.

    Feinting is gambling. The animations are too rapid to reliably predict and when lag is added to the calculation you are left with a mechanic that amounts to russian roulette. Having to deal with a flick-parry mechanisn vs lag is enough of a boundary to push without adding another layer on top. And that’s only to talk about the technicality of the matter; the principle I’ve already covered.

    The best thing that could happen to this game right now would be the complete removal of the feint mechanism. But hey, what do I (and 20k+ players) know?



  • @Panzerlang:

    This isn’t about doing something “right” or “wrong”, this is about an opinion regarding a mechanic. In my opinion there is a sufficiency of required and enjoyable skill to be had from matching strike against parry without adding an absolutely frustrating and dynamic-wrecking feature like the feint. Oh, so a handful of people are happy to grasp that nettle and eat it too? Good for them…and good luck finding players to fight as it not only puts off existing players but prospective purchasers too.

    There is a point at which too much becomes too much and the feint mechanic is it. Currently I deal with it by ignoring it and also not bothering to parry any more, I use movement to try to avoid strikes. Most people, in my opinion, simply stop playing and move on.

    If you were “right” though it would be a pyrrhic victory, what with the loss of over 20k players I’ve already mentioned.

    tl:dr…the game has been made too hard and frustrating, mostly by the feint mechanic. Those who have ‘mastered’ it…enjoy your triumph against the ever-dwindling number of opponents.

    I understand the frustration of feints, but its not a general pub issue and does not contribute towards drop in players, that is more to do with content and other issues.

    Feints are really an issue for good players who are trying to become the top tier players.

    Personally I fall for feints but I don’t want to have them removed because of it. Rather I deal with it and take a shield.

    The latest changes in Beta for feints appear to be just fine. The no-feint crowd will never be pleased but they cannot please everyone.



  • GOD DAMN, realy guys this is not about feint FFS



  • @gregcau:

    not a general pub issue and does not contribute towards drop in players, that is more to do with content and other issues.

    This is so wrong. So very, very wrong. They can add 20 new maps and it won’t change the pattern of new-player dropouts.



  • To do with “content” and “other issues”? Can you specify? Because you mention the pubs, which is where you’d think your average button-spamming player would get the most enjoyment. But over 20k players dropped the game. Why?

    I’d say the TO servers are where players go to learn basics and/or let their hair down. The duel servers are where this game really shines, in terms of both originality and innovation. Shines until the clouds of feinting and mis-matched classes and levels float overhead.

    The devs took a gamble with two mechanics in this game. Together they are show-stoppers for most people. The flick-parry on its own, I believe most people would swallow that. The feint on its own, no. The feint PLUS the flick-parry…goodbye game. As the numbers have already and continue to prove.

    You clearly admire it and I understand why. But what good will it do you to master something so “top tier” when all it does it put off the vast majority of players? Who will you fight against? A small stale pool of The Very Best?



  • @Panzerlang:

    To do with “content” and “other issues”? Can you specify? Because you mention the pubs, which is where you’d think your average button-spamming player would get the most enjoyment. But over 20k players dropped the game. Why?

    Content is where the TO maps get stale, they could be improved with the addition of more strategic, tactical, have more interesting interactive features.

    Other issues include the change of the nature of the pub battles. In the beginning it was a crazy slash fest where everyone was equal in skill. I remember some of the original videos which recommended taking a polearm and doing a combo because it always caught someone out lol.

    However as the bugs and exploits (queueing alt attacks was one of the worst, facehugging coming in a close second) came out and people become truly skilled so the pub battles became totally dominated by top players, literally getting 5-10 times more kills than the other players.

    I can see its just not fun for a new player. We finally got low rank servers but not enough players to really get them used - nor would they know how to find them easily.

    So yeah those are the other issues.

    Not sure where you get your 20k lost from. If you take total players from Christmas to now its far more, but then games dont last forever. The most significant drop is 2,800 concurrent players on weekdays in Jan/Feb to 1,500 now.



  • Feints are being nerfed for being too powerful and unpredictable.

    Facehug is being nerfed for being too powerful and unpredictable.

    Kick is being buffed for being too weak and predictable.

    This is diversifying options.

    I said you’re supposed to use feints - not you’re only supposed to use feints. A good player will master every mechanic of the game available to them and know how and when to utilize it. If some mechanics are being utilized too often and others too infrequently, it’s a clear problem and we’ll look towards solving it. I don’t recognize no-feint playstyles or facehug playstyles any more than I recognize block-only playstyles or LMB-spam playstyles, and none of them will be catered to. The only playstyle is the do anything and everything to win playstyle.



  • I understand the frustration of feints, but its not a general pub issue and does not contribute towards drop in players, that is more to do with content and other issues.

    I promise you people have quit this game because of feints alone. About 10 or so of the old RK members quit this game because of feints as they don’t like the guessing game associated with it and wanted something more akin to Age of Chivalry/Mount and Blade - where you have many options open to you but a guessing game is not one of them.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Feints are being nerfed for being too powerful and unpredictable.

    Facehug is being nerfed for being too powerful and unpredictable.

    Kick is being buffed for being too weak and predictable.

    This is diversifying options.

    I said you’re supposed to use feints - not you’re only supposed to use feints. A good player will master every mechanic of the game available to them and know how and when to utilize it. If some mechanics are being utilized too often and others too infrequently, it’s a clear problem and we’ll look towards solving it. I don’t recognize no-feint playstyles or facehug playstyles any more than I recognize block-only playstyles or LMB-spam playstyles, and none of them will be catered to. The only playstyle is the do anything and everything to win playstyle.

    I look forward to feint nerfs. When are they going to happen? In the beta at some point?



  • @Martin:

    I understand the frustration of feints, but its not a general pub issue and does not contribute towards drop in players, that is more to do with content and other issues.

    I promise you people have quit this game because of feints alone. About 10 or so of the old RK members quit this game because of feints as they don’t like the guessing game associated with it and wanted something more akin to Age of Chivalry/Mount and Blade - where you have many options open to you but a guessing game is not one of them.

    I was referring to a significant drop in pub players. Yes feinting is a high level player issue of which the community appears divided and hopefully the Beta changes will be a nice compromise. But you can’t please everyone.


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