Better way to balance lookdowns



  • Make it so your character doesn’t bend over like a damned upside down L when they look down. The reason lookdowns are so ridiculous is that they start from the defenders groin height. All the animation visual queues are happening out of few to the defender. Make the player model bend 45 degrees instead of 90 and then have their head look down if they are looking even further.



  • You should tumble forwards if you bend over too fast.



  • Although clanners would inevitability abuse this as a way to roll down hills really fast.



  • i lol’d



  • @dudeface:

    Although clanners would inevitability abuse this as a way to roll down hills really fast.

    Hahahaha.



  • I agree, i’ve said this many times before. People do not need to bend over so unrealistically far, i don’t get the point, all it does is create the whole ‘overhead lookdown’ problem.

    There are a variety of things that COULD be done, this shouldn’t be first on the list of things to try, its somewhat restrictive, maybe unnecessarily so, but if there is no other way of doing it…



  • I remember one of the developers saying it wouldn’t be possible to change how moving your entire upper body with the mouse works because they would have to completely remake the animations and change the engine to adjust to it.

    It looks stupid, but it’s just something we have to put up with.



  • In other words, it’s more work than they would like to do in solving the problem.



  • @dudeface:

    In other words, it’s more work than they would like to do in solving the problem.

    I dont get how limiting the articulation at a joint could possibly be difficult or require any major re-works.



  • @sharkh20:

    Make it so your character doesn’t bend over like a damned upside down L when they look down. The reason lookdowns are so ridiculous is that they start from the defenders groin height. All the animation visual queues are happening out of few to the defender. Make the player model bend 45 degrees instead of 90 and then have their head look down if they are looking even further.

    Well changing the animation is not going “balance” it, just make it look better. I don’t really think they need balancing anyway, eventually you get used to those fast overheads and they got a little nerfed in Beta.



  • Don’t forget about ducking swings, too.



  • @NabsterHax:

    Don’t forget about ducking swings, too.

    Being still while ducking can still turtle crouch. Moving or swinging takes you out of turtle crouch anyway.



  • @gregcau:

    Well changing the animation is not going “balance” it, just make it look better. I don’t really think they need balancing anyway, eventually you get used to those fast overheads and they got a little nerfed in Beta.

    I guess balance wasn’t the best word as I don’t find them overpowered. I just think they look stupid and broken which causes people to think they are unbalanced. In fact, damage wise this would make lookdowns stronger as the release would start in the opponent’s head instead of their chest.



  • My god. Lookdowns now make up like 75%-80% of the non-newbie players in Duels these days.

    And why not I guess. It’s EXTREMELY easy to pull off, makes your attacks 3x more effective, and is much more difficult to block.

    Add in some spastic flailing here and there and you have yourself an instant 10-0 score.



  • @Goden:

    My god. Lookdowns now make up like 75%-80% of the non-newbie players in Duels these days.

    And why not I guess. It’s EXTREMELY easy to pull off, makes your attacks 3x more effective, and is much more difficult to block.

    Add in some spastic flailing here and there and you have yourself an instant 10-0 score.

    I think you may be going a bit overboard there.



  • @sharkh20:

    @Goden:

    My god. Lookdowns now make up like 75%-80% of the non-newbie players in Duels these days.

    And why not I guess. It’s EXTREMELY easy to pull off, makes your attacks 3x more effective, and is much more difficult to block.

    Add in some spastic flailing here and there and you have yourself an instant 10-0 score.

    I think you may be going a bit overboard there.

    Only in the sense that you need to practice how exactly you ‘spastic-ally flail’ just a little bit.



  • There is only one situation where lookdowns become “3x more effective,” and that’s when you abuse the unlocked Y axis rotation during windup. It amazes me how many players still have such a huge amount of trouble simply reacting in time to block a lookdown that isn’t even a parry-riposte. The windup for any overhead is plenty long enough to see the attack coming and react appropriately.

    I’m pretty sure lookdown OHs is just the common complaint people make about good players who know what they’re doing and how to make you unprepared for the attack. The one ability to look at the floor will not win you duels alone against anyone who has practised for a few minutes.



  • @NabsterHax:

    There is only one situation where lookdowns become “3x more effective,” and that’s when you abuse the unlocked Y axis rotation during windup. It amazes me how many players still have such a huge amount of trouble simply reacting in time to block a lookdown that isn’t even a parry-riposte. The windup for any overhead is plenty long enough to see the attack coming and react appropriately.

    I’m pretty sure lookdown OHs is just the common complaint people make about good players who know what they’re doing and how to make you unprepared for the attack. The one ability to look at the floor will not win you duels alone against anyone who has practised for a few minutes.

    I have no real problems with lookdowns. But they are trying to “balance” it and I would rather them do it in a way that just makes the whole thing look better visually. People complain because they don’t understand what happened to them because visually it just looks like a guy headbutted them.



  • @David:

    I remember one of the developers saying it wouldn’t be possible to change how moving your entire upper body with the mouse works because they would have to completely remake the animations and change the engine to adjust to it.

    It looks stupid, but it’s just something we have to put up with.

    Quick nova redo the animations, you’ve got time :)



  • Well changing the animation is not going “balance” it, just make it look better.

    Actually the animation is the key (and a few other factors) - if you bend over like an old man you move your tracers (tracers on your weapon) forward, closer to the opponent thus making your attacks happening faster. It was really effective for long and heavy-hitting weapons. Face-hugging elevated the problem even more as it closed you to your target maximizing the effectiveness of this.


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