I can prove with pen and paper…



  • @Panzerlang:

    I have like 12 hours

    Oh dear lord. I can’t believe I let this guy troll me.

    Nothing to see here folks. Carry on; this guy #1 successful troll.



  • I’ve encountered some lighting fast players who don’t fall for feints at all, even quick ones, and can block at the very last nanosecond. This one knight i came across was insane, i was using a combination of quick feints and normal attacks and he blocked every single time.



  • @AngryDave:

    I find that there a lot of times where even if you don’t fall for a feint (aka guess correctly) and you go straight in with an attack they can still parry you or even hit you . A guy last night was able to feint twice with the Grand Mace DURING my zweihander attack swing on him and still hit me first. Just seems that there is very little risk with feinting, even if the enemy guesses correctly, yet the reward is extremely high.

    So feints are OP, because you always win when you use them. But they’re a luck-based coin-flip aren’t they? But some people are good enough to always win the coinflip… but it’s just luck - luck that you can never lose… unless it lands tails, which it never does.

    Thank you for providing an example that demonstrates that feinting is skill-based. Whether it’s so OP that it lowers the quality of other game mechanics is another story, but my personal experience is that it necessitates them.



  • Jcash, enough is enough. You’ve posted something like 500 of these posts, all claiming that feints somehow destroy you and your play style. You’ve had months to get used to it, it should not be an issue anymore.

    Post a video, show us your failings that we might point out the error of your ways.



  • @Digital:

    Jcash, enough is enough. You’ve posted something like 500 of these posts, all claiming that feints somehow destroy you and your play style. You’ve had months to get used to it, it should not be an issue anymore.

    Post a video, show us your failings that we might point out the error of your ways.

    Pretty stupid post consdering you can’t actually counter feints…



  • If he spent more time trying to parry at the right time and the end of an attack than all of this on the forums, he’d probably be immune to feints. :D

    Also… try a shield :o



  • What timezones are y’all playing in? Because I never have a problem with people using feint excessively against me when I play, and I rarely use it as well (I mostly just cancel attacks with it, but when I do use it, it’s because I am stuck in some fight where the opponent manage to block all my attacks.) My timezone is GMT +1, does that mean europeans feint less? Or am I just “lucky” playing against people not using feints?



  • @Panzerlang:

    Well said JCash.

    Allow me to add my tuppence-worth…

    The only reason the BS fantasy-move ‘FEINT’ works is because of the BS fantasy-move ‘FLICK PARRY’.

    I used to sword-fight in real life, still have a bash occasionally, and there is no such thing as ‘feinting’ (the very notion is beyond laughable). Even in BOXING it would be BULLSHIT. But the defence there is “CMW isn’t supposed to be realistic!” Well, if that’s the case, what are we arguing for?! All those who are sick to their back teeth with console arcade DRECK can just leave the building!

    Oh…they already did. All 20K+ of them. The only people left are arcade junkies and a handful of simmers desperately trying to save this game from arcade mediocrity.

    You can’t ‘feint’ somebody in real life, force them to put up a parry that has a duration of a fraction of a second and then fails and leaves the fighter open to a clear strike. IT’S UTTER BULLSHIT!!! It’s arcade DRECK of the worst possible kind. But take the ‘feint’ away and what is left? That’s right…an honest strike that may or may not be successfully parried, depending on the attackee’s SPEED and ACCURACY of parry. And there’s MOAR! The defender may choose to go straight from his parry to a strike, while the attacker’s first strike may be part of a combo. Wow! The complexity of the dynamic is already fucking AWESOME, without the need for the CHEAP-ASS, DYNAMIC-WRECKING, BULLSHIT FEINT!

    Oh, I forgot. It makes combats go on for too long.

    O…M…F…G…!!! SERIOUSLY?! This is a legitimate complaint?! in a SWORDFIGHTING game? What, ya’ll want a fight over in seconds? Errol fucking Flyn must be spinning in his grave, spitting so much contempt he’s pretty much dish-washing his own ass.

    This ain’t no “Epic Swordfighting game”, it’s a game of coin-toss mediocrity. But oh, how simple to fix it. DUMP THE FUCKING FEINT.

    You should see a psychologist.



  • @Bloodhead:

    @Digital:

    Jcash, enough is enough. You’ve posted something like 500 of these posts, all claiming that feints somehow destroy you and your play style. You’ve had months to get used to it, it should not be an issue anymore.

    Post a video, show us your failings that we might point out the error of your ways.

    Pretty stupid post consdering you can’t actually counter feints…

    Pretty stupid post considering certain people can reliably win duels with feints…



  • Mount and blade has no such mechanic, and works just fine. The fights are not too long, they are fast paced, tense and completely skill-based.

    I just started playing Warband a few months ago, and at first I thought it didn’t have feints.

    It does, they just aren’t an actual mechanic. You can hold up your swing, wait for them to put up their parry, and then switch to a different swing to try and hit them before they can switch to the appropriate parry. I.e. Rush in holding your weapon above your head, they put their overhead parry up, you switch quickly to a slash from the left, and connect while they are trying to parry an overhead.

    It’s a feint, it’s just not a one button parry bypass. Which makes it far more satisfying, in my opinion.



  • @Wobbler:

    Mount and blade has no such mechanic, and works just fine. The fights are not too long, they are fast paced, tense and completely skill-based.

    I just started playing Warband a few months ago, and at first I thought it didn’t have feints.

    It does, they just aren’t an actual mechanic. You can hold up your swing, wait for them to put up their parry, and then switch to a different swing to try and hit them before they can switch to the appropriate parry. I.e. Rush in holding your weapon above your head, they put their overhead parry up, you switch quickly to a slash from the left, and connect while they are trying to parry an overhead.

    It’s a feint, it’s just not a one button parry bypass. Which makes it far more satisfying, in my opinion.

    Well the main difference is that in Mount and Blade, if you fall for a feint, you always have time to react to/block any other attacks that come after feints, like any real Swordsman would be able to (not that I’m implying there should be true realism, but one or two people seem to think feints existing in their current form makes sense because you can ‘do it’ in real life).

    In Chivalry, if you fall for a feint, it’s a free hit, and it’s great for the attacker, but not so great for the defender, and therein lies the reason there is a huge split in people liking or not liking the feints as they currently exist. Hence the reason the people who fall for the most feints in a fight loses the fight; it’s a one dimensional mechanic that more often than not spells the be all and end all to a duel (exception being shields in cases), they don’t lose because they’re less skilled, or they had bad placement, or they missed their attacks, or they made a mistake, they lost because they guessed wrong.



  • /thread



  • @Martin:

    they don’t lose because they’re less skilled, or they had bad placement, or they missed their attacks, or they made a mistake, they lost because they guessed wrong.

    The skill involved in winning duels is in making sure you’re never in the position to have to guess, or manipulate your enemy into being predictable. What people don’t realise here is that by removing feint you are asking for a free invincibility button, and it seems a few people would rather have everyone invulnerable, than everyone be in a kill or be killed state.



  • @NabsterHax:

    The skill involved in winning duels is in making sure you’re never in the position to have to guess, or manipulate your enemy into being predictable.

    QFT



  • @NabsterHax:

    @Martin:

    they don’t lose because they’re less skilled, or they had bad placement, or they missed their attacks, or they made a mistake, they lost because they guessed wrong.

    The skill involved in winning duels is in making sure you’re never in the position to have to guess, or manipulate your enemy into being predictable. What people don’t realise here is that by removing feint you are asking for a free invincibility button, and it seems a few people would rather have everyone invulnerable, than everyone be in a kill or be killed state.

    Sorry but this is rubbish. You play MAA so you get to dodge all the time (as is the person who wrote QFT, ironically), for everyone else, it’s an up close and personal melee game with little chance to give yourself some space when you’re locked in an encounter. If you’re in range to hit with your own weapon, you’re in range to feint and be feinted, you can’t suddenly decide mid-swing to be out of range of a feint unless you’re an MAA. If you feint out of range in other circumstances though, that’s an error on your own part.

    Also, for the record, I’m not in favour of removing feint in it’s current implementation from this particular game as it currently stands. I’m putting out a blanket statement that this implementation of feints is awful, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or not because it’s a glorified coin flip in a self-proclaimed game of skill (which could be said about any game, I’m not just talking about CMW here). It just so happens there aren’t enough mechanics to support this particular game if feint (as in, the free hit/guesswork portion of it as opposed to the defensive side) was removed entirely, hence the need to keep it in to not make it a trade fest of two buttons. Funny isn’t it, how the discussion of the removal of an entire mechanic results in gameplay changing radically, for the worse (disregarding that the actual number of mechanics has reduced)? It speaks wonders for how much the single mechanic influences this game. What if we hypothetically removed kicks? I bet half the people wouldn’t even bat an eyelid unless it was a fight that involved shields.



  • I think people are just going to have to accept that there is a sense of randomness to combat with feints, it’s suppose to be like this. This game is about skill and luck and how much you can put that luck in your favor.



  • I don’t mind having some randomness in a fight, but feints take it way too far. It’s a case of losing most, if not all of your health because you did something that you’re supposed to do (trying to block an incoming attack). It’s a zero risk move with a massive reward, which is why high-level combat revolves around it so much.

    I’m not one to suggest the outright removal of major game mechanics, especially this long after release, but I really don’t see there ever being a point where feints sit well on the line between being game-breakingly powerful and completely worthless. To be honest, I think the completely worthless part is what would be the better option for 99.9% of the playerbase. At least in terms of offensive use.



  • Luck is fine in small degrees if losing out on that luck event isn’t critical. Unfortunately in chivalry it is. At best, losing to that luck roll can mean 1/4th of your life is gone, in the worse case scenario it can literally be instant death.

    That is so utterly laughably dumb it’s beyond words.

    Nabster, BB, you’re both MAA. You have no idea what it’s like playing a full melee class that has to be up-front with the enemy most of the time, with fairly limited options to retreat and control the flow of the battle. I assure you, no one feels safe when I am close to them, and vice versa, there are players who are great with fakeouts and drags, and I don’t feel safe when they are near me even with great defensive skill.



  • @Martin:

    Sorry but this is rubbish. You play MAA so you get to dodge all the time (as is the person who wrote QFT, ironically),

    I play all classes, son. I just main MAA.

    @David:

    It’s a zero low risk move with a massive reward when in a proper range, which is why high-level combat duels revolve around it so much.

    FTFY.



  • I think the people that have trouble with feints are missing a vital layer of the mind game. Something that comes only with practice.

    Feinting is dangerous, this must be fully appreciated. Feinting greatly favors the person who does it first in a melee exchange.

    Therefore you cannot allow yourself to be in a position that allows the other person to feint effectively. That means if they are in range of hitting you, they are in a position to effectively feint you.

    You cannot reliably react to a good feint. You can anticipate, however that requires knowledge of the opponents fight style. Since you cannot reliably react to a good feint you have 2 options.

    1: Get out of range so even a feint attack will miss.
    2: Attack first, using your own feints.

    If you get stuck in a position where they have the advantage, in other words they can windup/release ahead of you, which mean they can feint before you. You have to take steps to change that, this means not reacting to them but moving and attempting to ‘reset’ the fight. You might have to take a hit and not parry at all.

    Once the fight is reset, take the advantage.

    If being acutely aware of the danger of feinting is not on your mind for most fights, then you need to step up your game. I’m talking complex, high level thinking that takes place in the precious few seconds you have before a swing. Hence why it takes practice and a clear mind.


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