Weapon talk : Auxiliary



  • Auxiliaries is the catagory of weapons that are available for Archers, Man-at arms and Vanguards, though they only serve best as the Archer’s backup weapon when forced to go melee. They are overall pretty good, its speed helps it getting out of any pinch. Not a viable weapon of choice for Man-at arms due to much better weapon of coice in the primary slot.

    Cudgel

    ! Cudgel
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 45 Blunt F: 12500, 19 = 0.4/0.525/0.4/0.4 = 1.2
    ! Attack2 : 50 Blunt F: 12500, 21 = 0.4/0.55/0.4/0.4 = 1.2
    ! Attack3 : 20 Blunt F: 11500, 9 = 0.4/0.575/0.3/425 = 1.125
    ! Parry Strenght : 10
    ! Reach : 30
    ! Unique :
    ! Special: Mainly for swinging, Two HTK on Knight with Attack2 (backstab)

    Shortsword

    ! Shortsword
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 40 Cut F: 10000, 18 = 0.4/0.525/0.35/0.4 = 1.15
    ! Attack2 : 45 Cut F: 10000, 19 = 0.4/0.525/0.35/0.4 = 1.15
    ! Attack2 : 50 Pierce F: 10000, 17 = 0.4/0.525/0.3/0.425 =1.125
    ! Parry Strenght : 9
    ! Reach : 25
    ! Unique : Deploy time 0.4
    ! Special: Best overall Small weapon catagory and shared weapon swap speed with Dagger class.

    Saber

    ! Saber
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 45 Cut F: 12000, 19 = 0.4/0.575/0.0.375/0.4 = 1.15
    ! Attack2 : 55 Cut F: 12000, 20 = 0.4/0.5/0.35/0.4 = 1.15
    ! Attack3 : 40 Pierce F: 20000, 15 = 0.45/0.55/0.35/0.425 = 1.225
    ! Parry Strenght : 10
    ! Reach : 33
    ! Unique :
    ! Special:
    Balance discussion.
    Cudgel and Shortsword are one of the best weapon of choice for this weapon catagory, the Saber easily falls out of the taste due to its lack of power. Saber’s only advantage is the highest reach, the cudgel and shortsword outclasses it at every other aspect.

    Might be possible to nerf Shortswords Attack1 base damage 40>35 and Attack2 base damage 45>40 to make Cudgel have a bit higher swing damage, whilst Saber could need a Buff on both Attack1 & Attack2 to make it more favourable. Please state your opinions

    Weapon damage value dedicated for the weapon talk threads can be found here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Weapon talk : URL Threads
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14535

    Up to date change suggestions:
    Date: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:05 am

    ! Shortsword:
    ! Attack1 base damage 40>35
    ! Attack2 base damage 45>40
    !
    ! Saber:
    ! Attack1 base damage 40>45
    ! Attack2 base damage 45>50 and Release 0.4>0.425
    ! Attack3 base damage 40>35, windup 0.4>0.45 and Release 0.4>0.35
    !
    ! Cudgel:
    ! Attack3 Combo 0.575>0.55



  • Thread should be renamed to secondary weapons. There’s more than 3 small weapons in the game.



  • @DDR:

    Thread should be renamed to secondary weapons. There’s more than 3 small weapons in the game.

    Wouldn’t be correct to catagorize that weapon as “Secondaries” Since Vanguard and Knight’s secondaries are different from the Man-at arms and Archers, which contains: Cudgel, Shortsword and Saber.



  • @wildwulfy:

    @DDR:

    Thread should be renamed to secondary weapons. There’s more than 3 small weapons in the game.

    Wouldn’t be correct to catagorize that weapon as “Secondaries” Since Vanguard and Knight’s secondaries are different from the Man-at arms and Archers, which contains: Cudgel, Shortsword and Saber.

    Well you better add all the other small weapons to the list as well.
    Stuff like holy water, double axe, the maces, etc.



  • Guys, this is for balance discussion, not going back and forth over semantics.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Might be possible to nerf Shortswords Attack1 base damage 40>35 and Attack2 base damage 45>40 to make Cudgel have a bit higher swing damage, whilst Saber could need a Buff on both Attack1 & Attack2 to make it more favourable. Please state your opinions

    I would leave cudgel as is, and do the shortsword nerf. That would probably make the saber more attractive without needing a buff.



  • Any complaint I have regarding these weapons is most likely being fixed with the upcoming facehug-fix.



  • Update on current suggestions.

    Shortsword:
    Attack1 base damage 40>35
    Attack2 base damage 45>40

    Saber:
    Attack1 base damage 40>45
    Attack2 base damage 45>50 and Release 0.4>0.425
    Attack3 base damage 40>35, windup 0.4>0.45 and Release 0.4>0.35

    Cudgel:
    Attack3 Combo 0.575>0.55

    Weapon Talk : Spreadsheet
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82



  • @wildwulfy:

    Update on current suggestions.

    Shortsword:
    Attack1 base damage 40>35
    Attack2 base damage 45>40

    Saber:
    Attack1 base damage 40>45
    Attack2 base damage 45>50 and Release 0.4>0.425
    Attack3 base damage 40>35, windup 0.4>0.45 and Release 0.4>0.35

    Cudgel:
    Attack3 Combo 0.575>0.55

    Weapon Talk : Spreadsheet
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Looks fine.



  • Saber:
    Attack1 base damage 40>45
    Attack2 base damage 45>50 and Release 0.4>0.425
    Attack3 base damage 40>35, windup 0.4>0.45 and Release 0.4>0.35

    Wait attack 3 = stab yh ? if it is this make no sense to decrease damage on stab and increase windup, the saber is mostly a stab weapon, in the game and even IRL, increase the windup of stab like in the current beta is very bad too, stab look slow and can’t be drag properly, drag a stab very good, like doing a 180 while running for drag the stab in your opponent back is an hard thing to do, that require a good aim and not many can do that, it’s some skill stuff, but of course on that forum, anything need a nerf or a change lol.

    1h sword, and those small sword are well balanced and don’t need change at all, if you want to change something in saber, just raise the damage a little bit.



  • @Sirbarthelemy:

    if you want to change something in saber, just raise the damage a little bit.

    This. And maybe allow a double-stab combo.



  • @Sirbarthelemy:

    what. What is it with people telling me these days that weapons which were never supposed to stab should be good stabbing weapons in this game. First maces now sabers. Sabers are HORRIBLE for stabbing(IRL), because they are curved. In game the stab is the best attack of the saber. Makes no sense for a saber. That is like the slash being the best attack on the Spear.

    Wulfy is right, I like his changes.



  • Small weapons is the catagory of weapons that are available for Archers and Man-at arms, though they only serve best as the Archer’s backup weapon when forced to go melee.

    Cudgel

    Cudgel is avaliable for Vanguard.
    Saber too.
    …and Shortsword.

    Btw, there is no damage category called ‘‘Cut’’. I think you either mean swing or pierce.



  • I never use the cudgel as I hate slashing like a mofo, it’s annoying and quite a high risk ofhitting teammates.

    The saber’s got a fair amount of reach and it usually surprises me when archers use it and are able to stab from so far away.

    I myself only pick the shortsword, it’s quite fast and with footwork you can easily take down a shielded knight, that’s because you move fast and shields are quite easy to run past if the opponent holds it in defence position, which makes them turn slower? At least it makes it harder for tehm to notice you as you run on their side with less vision. I believe you could do this with the saber as well but it probably wouldn’t be as effective/fast.



  • the cudgel and saber make me mad, because both seem to hit when they shouldn’t more often then other weapons.



  • @-Thylacine-:

    Small weapons is the catagory of weapons that are available for Archers and Man-at arms,

    Cudgel is avaliable for Vanguard.
    Saber too.
    …and Shortsword.

    Lol, funny when people try to correct others just for the sake of it.

    If we go to a pub and I drink all kinds of dark beers they have and you drink some too, would it be wrong to say ‘the dark beers this pub has are the beers I was drinking’ just because you had some too?



  • I’d say shortsword and cudgel are right where they need to be as almost-decent dueling weapons but bad teamplay weapons. Saber needs some adjusting though. All of its release times are too slow, and its overhead windup time is too long. Possible damage buff too?



  • Too much facehug allowed with them. But their stats seem balanced as far as I’m concerned.



  • With the Saber buff each of those weapons now has a good spot.

    The Saber is the longest option and most effectice against lighter classes but lacks the damage against heavier enemies.
    The Shortsword is the shortest and fastest dealing the most consistent damage throughout all classes.
    The Cudgel is the weakest option against light classes but the most powerful against Knights.

    In my opinion they are in a good shape right now. The only thing that might be worth changing is the Shortswords switch time.



  • @Evil:

    With the Saber buff each of those weapons now has a good spot.

    The Saber is the longest option and most effectice against lighter classes but lacks the damage against heavier enemies.
    The Shortsword is the shortest and fastest dealing the most consistent damage throughout all classes.
    The Cudgel is the weakest option against light classes but the most powerful against Knights.

    In my opinion they are in a good shape right now. The only thing that might be worth changing is the Shortswords switch time.

    I never see people use the Cudgel. Not even against knights :(
    Sad because it’s such a cool little wooden club that can slam people.


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