Weapon talk : One-handed swords



  • One-handed cutting weapons are available as a Primary for Man-at arms, whilst being a Secondary choice for the Knight. Very fast and decent duelist weapons, lacks the range sometimes.

    Broadsword

    ! Broadsword
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery, W+R+R
    ! Attack1 : 60 Cut F: 15000, 21 = 0.45/0.6/0.35/0.55 = 1.35
    ! Attack2 : 70 Cut F: 15000, 22 = 0.4/0.65/0.35/0.55 = 1.3
    ! Attack3 : 55 Pierce F: 22500, 20 = 0.45/0.65/0.35/0.55 = 1.3
    ! Parry Strenght : 12
    ! Reach : 37
    ! Unique :
    ! Special :

    Falchion

    ! Falchion
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery, W+R+R
    ! Attack1 : 65 Cut F: 10000, 23 = 0.4/0.675/0.4/0.5 = 1.3
    ! Attack2 : 75 CutBlunt F: 10000, 23 = 0.45/0.675/0.35/0.55 = 1.35
    ! Attack3 : 40 Pierce F: 20000, 16 = 0.45/0.674/0.35/0.5 = 1.3
    ! Parry Strenght : 13
    ! Reach : 28
    ! Unique :
    ! Special : Only viable for Horizontal and Vertical attacks.

    Norse Sword

    ! Norse Sword
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Strenght, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery, W+R+R
    ! Attack1 : 55 Cut F: 10000, 20 = 0.35/0.65/0.4/0.5 = 1.25
    ! Attack2 : 65 Cut F: 10000, 21 = 0.35/0.65/0.35/0.5 = 1.25
    ! Attack3 : 55 Pierce F: 22500, 20 = 0.45/0.65/0.3/0.5 = 1.25
    ! Parry Strenght : 11
    ! Reach : 33
    ! Unique :
    ! Special : 33

    Balance discussion.
    All three One-handed sword weapons seem to be in a equal balance. Norse has the advantage of speed, Broadsword has the reach and the Falchion has the damage. Feel free to share your opinion about these three weapons.

    Weapon damage value dedicated for the weapon talk threads can be found here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Weapon talk : URL Threads
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14535

    Up to date change suggestions:
    Date: None

    ! None



  • Just to add some first-hand experience to complement the numbers:

    Falchion feels like the most draggable, especially with slashes, you can do an accel to a decel and not many one-handers can really say that. It’s also great for dodging past someone and turning it into their back, again because of that extra little bit of draggability.

    Norse Sword feels extremely fast, those alt overheads especially, and it is well-served by playing more in-your-face and throwing out a quick slash feint to overhead because of how quickly someone needs to block. You might not get that impression just from the numbers, but the difference between this and Broadsword is pretty significant.

    Broadsword has an awesome drag-stab when combined with the MAA’s sprint speed and is probably the best for punishing those misses because of the reach you get with stabs, but all its attacks are quite good, making it the most versatile. It’s not significantly longer than Norse, but enough to make a marked difference when switching between the two and probably the weapon of choice to fight two-handers since you can comfortably stay at a bit more of a range to avoid their attacks and still be able to hit with a simple sprint-forward attack.

    That’s just my feelings from both giving and receiving ends of these weapons and hopefully gives more of an insight beyond the pure numbers, which look very similar at first glance.



  • As someone who primarily uses the broadsword as a knight, the parry -> stab counter is too fast. Its my opinion that the rapid parry mechanics should be taken out entirely due to the bizarre game of rock paper scissors it creates (the instaparry mechanics), which inevitably ends up with me winning a free stab (and then an overhead due to flinch mechanics). This is most exaggerated with the 1 handed knight weapons (mostly broadsword due to range) and isn’t so much of a problem with 2 handers/etc due to their slow speed



  • the parry -> stab counter is too fast

    Some bugs were potentially (pending investigation) identified with counter attack timings (IF they are true, it’s a massive Derp). So we’ll have to wait on that to understand what is really going on.



  • I feel that the swords are very balanced if you ignore alt swings. Once those are adjusted each sword will have its strengths and weaknesses. I do think that the broadsword’s stab should do more on light targets, but less on heavy targets, to add a little diversity.



  • Broadsword stabs 2 hit Archers, 2 hit MAAs, 3 hit Vanguards and 4 hit Knights (excluding head shots). What do you mean by more on light targets and less on heavy?



  • @Martin:

    Broadsword stabs 2 hit MAAs,

    Does 47 damage to the torso. You need a head shot to kill a MAA in 2 stabs.

    You also need a headshot if you do stab and slash.

    2 slashes, 2 overheads, 1/1 OH/Slash or OH/Stab will 2 shot a MAA.



  • In that case, give the extra 5 damage to the Norse Sword stab, Broadsword is good enough as it is.



  • @Martin:

    In that case, give the extra 5 damage to the Norse Sword stab, Broadsword is good enough as it is.

    buffing norse sword
    It’s already nigh unblockable.



  • It’s only unblockable if alt swings are used. And I was saying that it would be cool to add a little diversity and realism by making the broadsword’s stab be a tad better against light classes, maybe two torso stabs kills a MaA, something to differentiate it from the norse stab. It’s obviously not a priority, but after all the balancing is done, I think it would be an interesting change.



  • @20k:

    As someone who primarily uses the broadsword as a knight, the parry -> stab counter is too fast.

    Cant agree, almost always using that to duel with y friend of mine he has absolutely no problem blocking my counterstabs.



  • Back in release phase of Chivalry before its first patch, the three one-handed swords had sorta their special job, just like the Longsword, Sword of War and Messer. Still don’t understand why that couldn’t be kept, but anyways yeah. Broadsword was basically the hybrid since it could both deal high damage and swinging and stabbing, whilst Falchion’s job was to only swing due to its very low stab damage, and norse sword had weak swinging power, but a very high stabbing. this all made all the three different swords actually matter, just like the three different longswords.

    Maybe these changes would be good.

    Attack1 base damage 55>50 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack2 base damage 65>60 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack3 base damage 55>65 and windup 0.45>0.35 and recovery 0.55>0.65 ( To prevent stab spams that is performed with the Holy Water Sprinkler )



  • 65 damage @ 0.35 windup on its stab is asking for trouble.



  • @Martin:

    65 damage @ 0.35 windup is asking for trouble.

    After running the numbers through the spreadsheet, I can see there is no way the Norse Sword can have Attack3 base damage 65 due to the fact that they are easily able to two-hit vanguards then. though having it lowered to 60 will make you still able to two-hit a vanguard, though you must score a stab to the head first, so my suggestions then would be doing this.

    Attack1 base damage 55>50 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack2 base damage 65>60 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack3 base damage 55>60 and recovery 0.55>0.65



  • I don’t think nerfing it’s other attacks is going to make it more appealing over the Broadsword either :P

    The only thing I’d even suggest is just throwing 5 extra damage on the Norse’s stab to make it 2 hit MAAs reliably (so 55>60), considering its shorter range than the Broadsword.

    The Falchion should be getting its slash moved to ‘Cut’ damage type so you’ll be encouraged to actually use its overhead finally instead of LMB only.

    After that, I can’t see any other issues with these 3 weapons unless I’m missing something. They’d be pretty closely balanced.



  • To make the Norse Sword more favourable than the Broadsword in one task, we could do these changes.

    For Norse Sword

    Attack1 base damage 55>50 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack2 base damage 65>60 and windup 0.35>0.4
    Attack3 base damage 55>60

    For Broadsword

    Attack3 base damage 55>50

    By doing so would give the Norse Sword the advantage of being able to two-hit a Man-at arms in the body, whilst the Broadsword must score a headshot first. though Norse Swords chance of two-hitting Man-at arms with Slash and Overhead is reduced.

    As for Falchion,
    changing the Attack1 type CutBlunt>Cut would infact increase the max damage dealt to Archers and Man-at arms due to their higher resistance against Blunt than cut, and versus Vanguards and Knights, the two different values between Attack1 & Attack2 is too simular to make any difference.

    What is possible to do is: Attack2 base damage 75>78, then the Falchion would have a two HTK on bodyshot versus Vanguards, a reason to use overhead instead of slash.



  • It still only requires slash to do the job though. Why overhead when slash can kill in the same amount of hits AND do it faster AND have an easier job getting around parries? 65 Cut and 75 Chop seems like a good place, you can mix the attacks and still drop VGs in 2 hits and Knights in 3 but you can no longer rely on LMB only doing all of the work for you.



  • 1)No need to nerf broadsword because damage, range, timings were balanced at alpha very good as we can see it now.
    2)Norse sword - need stub damage buff for 2 shot vangas by 1 to torso and 1 to head.
    3)Falchion - that weapon need speed buff or damage buff to compensate very poor range.



  • @Dzen:

    3)Falchion - that weapon need speed buff or damage buff to compensate very poor range.

    It’s slightly longer than flanged mace, and same speed (?) and is capable of 3-shotting knights with ease, while still being able to deal with MAA with ease.



  • I almost always do knight kite + 1-h, and its almost always the broad sword. I purposely don’t use the falchion or norse sword because I think they are cheap. Why? Well, falchion seems to hit when it shouldn’t more often. Continuing, I swear its faster than the broad sword, even though the game claims that they have the same speed, if I am not mistaken. Similarly the norse sword seems more prone to hit when it shouldn’t. Broad sword seems to be balanced alright, and its straight, flat nature makes it less prone to hitting when it shouldn’t, in my experience.


Log in to reply