EU balance council nomination is an unacceptable joke



  • Before we start, I’ll make it clear that I have no problem with any of the people specifically involved, and I am specifically discussing the EU side of the balance council. I have no idea of the state of the US side

    So, we have the balance council coming up. Or something along the lines of that. I’m a tad out of the loop nowadays but from what I can gather:

    Notion of a balance council is created. There are no EU representatives whatsoever

    Community complains - devs turn to Blaine (for some curious reason) and asks him to pick some nominees (instead of listening to the community for nominees)

    With no bias whatsoever (so says the devs), Blaine picks 3 RK (his former clan) members, and one IO member. The IO member has no idea why he was picked, IO leadership was not consulted.

    Now, this has smacked pretty bad in the face of a lot of the community. With 3/4s of your EU balance council being from one clan who have a particular view on how the game should be played, and are close friends, we’re going to pretty much hear the same opinion stapled together several times. The IO member admits to not being a very good speaker, so that’s a great choice as well, or something. I was informed that had IO been consulted (seriously, why didn’t this happen) a different member who was an expert on balance (its claimed) would have been picked

    This is complete shambles. Don’t call it a community balance council when the EU side is pretty much just the friends of the ex-dev. And the excuse “Blaine picked people who were appropriate for the job” is condescendingly insulting to the community’s intelligence - we need as diverse a choice as possible so that we can actually discuss balancing. And why the christ is blaine even in that position anyway?

    What’s even stranger is that there is clearly an easy solution to this problem. Contact the major clans (There’s a steam group full of clan leaders!), have them nominate a representative, and then we can have a proper balance council. And you know what is happening behind the scenes? The clans are nominating representatives to talk to sophax to see if we can chip in with our concerns. We shouldn’t have to go through this level of crap for the community to be ‘heard’

    So stop trying to pretend that you are involving the community with this. You picked the easy and slightly despicable solution which won’t change anything. There was no community involvement in the picking of the nominees, and they share practically the same voice as to how the game should be balanced anyway

    Oh, and the chat of the balance council? Private. Great open community involvement there guys, really involves people when they can’t see the discussion

    Don’t worry though, we can discuss this in the official balance th- no wait that was locked.



  • From Balance Council thread:
    @Martin:

    This thread was locked by somebody else, but I’m going to answer the people who accuse me of Bias.

    First of all, let me tell you what my specification was:

    can you give some recommendations for top european players to be involved? we’ve got a competitive NA player of each class and we’d like the same for EU players so we can get a mix of perspectives

    So, I went out on a bid to find a top Archer, Man-at-arms, Vanguard and Knight from the EU competitive scene as per my specification.

    I actually came back to SlyGoat with 10 names (and Falc, you were one of those 10 names) along with the recommendation to increase the team size because it did not cater to enough people to represent all the weapons and play styles; I also said this to Kimiko. I was told to make it 4 only. It only started with 4 from each of NA and EU to get the ball rolling for the next beta patch, it may be increased in the future, but that’s up to the people running the show. This is literally just to get the priorities and most important issues out of the way, I would assume, since people are constantly saying only individual weapons need tweaking, which is a valid argument.

    I picked Planetus, Sharli, Dubjay and Sophax for their ability and knowledge alone. The number of EU clans that are represented is equal to the number of NA clans that are represented if it truly matters so much what is in front of your name.

    The reason I’m there probably has something to do with the fact I did around 80-90% of the game’s numbers prior to its release, with tweaks being made by other people.

    The ‘Balance Council’ is in good hands. They have picked up on overused and underused weapons and identified the reasons for that and changes (if any are necessary) will be beta tested by everyone. Everybody else’s view is not being disregarded, you will have your say if you’re willing to make posts on it and put your opinion across.



  • @Daiyuki:

    snip

    Yes i read this. Did you read my criticisms of why this is full of crap? We have 3 RK members. Good friends with similar opinions, in a similar environment. We’re going to get the same thing pretty much out of all three of them

    And then we have an IO member who doesn’t know why he was picked.

    RK members are good friends with Blaine, who picked them for the reasons outlined above.

    The thing is, the whole process is a sham. Blaine should never have been told to “go find some EU players”. The community should have picked - instead the whole thing reeks of favouritism and incompetence.

    Should i believe the balance council is in good hands because an ex-dev told me so? Well, from what we’ve seen from the devs so far, I’m not sure i trust their assessment in this

    Everybody else’s view is not being disregarded, you will have your say if you’re willing to make posts on it and put your opinion across.

    The view in the community at the moment seems to be that pretty much nobody bothers giving feedback because it gets ignored. Have you asked the competitive community what they think of the latest balance patch? Have you asked the old veterans why they’ve stopped playing the game? The answers wouldn’t make you happy, but at least we could get the game moving in the right direction again

    Instead we have this constant smoke and mirrors. Something needs to give - its either going to be the playerbase, or how the developers communicate and respond to feedback with the community



  • Would you be satisfied if I stepped down? Is this what it takes stop people arguing they didn’t get picked or their particular clan wasn’t picked?



  • Well, out of the list he had, he needed to cut it down. Makes sense that he knows RK people a lot better, so would you rather have people that are known to understand the game well or people from various clans chosen on the basis that they are in those clans and not much else because nothing else is really known about them?

    You’re talking as if we should have a huge community election or something, and that may not be terrible, but this was more impromptu than that. I don’t see how having everyone who visits the forums vote on certain people is going to be any better, but it could certainly be a thing for the “expanded version” of the council since the input from the first meeting was so constructive.



  • @Daiyuki:

    but this was more impromptu than that.

    See, that’s half the problem. Why not do it properly? Why not create a proper balance council, and fix the problems with the game? Make it a big thing, engage the community, fix the problems, make a great game. Instead we have this half arsed thing

    My opinion would be to scrap it, do it again, and do it properly this time. Involve the major clans, get them to nominate representatives, everyone form a short list of changes they’d like to see, then have a big discussion



  • @20k:

    @Daiyuki:

    but this was more impromptu than that.

    See, that’s half the problem. Why not do it properly? Why not create a proper balance council, and fix the problems with the game? Make it a big thing, engage the community, fix the problems, make a great game. Instead we have this half arsed thing

    My opinion would be to scrap it, do it again, and do it properly this time. Involve the major clans, get them to nominate representatives, everyone form a short list of changes they’d like to see, then have a big discussion

    They said they’d expand it if it turns out to be a really useful thing. Having a small test before going big on something is always a good idea. Since it seemed like a really positive meeting from what I heard in general and from Padawan, I don’t see why they wouldn’t do something similar to what you’re suggesting in the near future.



  • @Martin:

    Would you be satisfied if I stepped down? Is this what it takes stop people arguing they didn’t get picked or their particular clan wasn’t picked?

    The thing is, nobody minds which particular clan was picked. RK might be getting a lot of hate at the moment, but its not really to do with them. If you’d picked 3 members of TPL, I’d have still complained that the whole thing was crappy

    The main problem is that the whole thing feels half arsed. I mean, there wasn’t even an EU part of the balance council to begin with. If you guys really want to fix the problems with the game with the community, scrap what you’ve got going at the moment and have a more community oriented approach. We might get some diverse opinions going then and some real discussion - but at this rate, all we have is people bitter at how poor the selection process has been, and how ad hoc the entire thing feels



  • 2 members from RK not 3, just as 2 members from VQ in America.
    I can’t see Americans complaining.



  • Were there any non-clan members asked for their feedback in this council? If not, does that not seem like a problem to any of you?



  • @Sidewinder:

    Were there any non-clan members asked for their feedback in this council? If not, does that not seem like a problem to any of you?

    Yes, BB as Man-at-Arms in NA.



  • @Daiyuki:

    @20k:

    @Daiyuki:

    but this was more impromptu than that.

    See, that’s half the problem. Why not do it properly? Why not create a proper balance council, and fix the problems with the game? Make it a big thing, engage the community, fix the problems, make a great game. Instead we have this half arsed thing

    My opinion would be to scrap it, do it again, and do it properly this time. Involve the major clans, get them to nominate representatives, everyone form a short list of changes they’d like to see, then have a big discussion

    They said they’d expand it if it turns out to be a really useful thing. Having a small test before going big on something is always a good idea. Since it seemed like a really positive meeting from what I heard in general and from Padawan, I don’t see why they wouldn’t do something similar to what you’re suggesting in the near future.

    And what do we do once the half arsedness, and the bitterness of the community means that the second ‘proper’ balance council fails?

    The game needs fixing soon. Like real soon. Talking to the competitive members, there are a huge number of flaws, and people are starting to get pissed. We don’t need a ‘test balance council’, we need a full blown discussion from the community of the flaws and uncomfortable facts straight to the devs.

    The competitive scene of the game is dying. We need to fix things, and what we’ve got going (especially the appalling beta patches) needs to change



  • @20k:

    […] We don’t need a ‘test balance council’, we need a full blown discussion from the community of the flaws and uncomfortable facts straight to the devs.

    […]

    That’s what the forums are…? Specifically the Ask TBS and Balance sections.



  • @Sidewinder:

    Were there any non-clan members asked for their feedback in this council? If not, does that not seem like a problem to any of you?

    I’m exclusively talking about the competitive balancing of the game, and in that respect the clans are the best place to go

    Its also extremely difficult to nominate non-clan members due to the disorganised nature of the group. It might be a good idea to randomly select a group of non-affiliated people (from a pool of people who apply) to participate



  • I’d really like you to edit your post about 3 players in council being from RK which is simply spreading misinformations.



  • @Daiyuki:

    @20k:

    […] We don’t need a ‘test balance council’, we need a full blown discussion from the community of the flaws and uncomfortable facts straight to the devs.

    […]

    That’s what the forums are…? Specifically the Ask TBS and Balance sections.

    And how much has that changed?

    The latest beta patch allows double parrying to counter feints with the feint change. Nobody asked for that (and its a terrible balance decision), and the numerous bugs that have been reported are still unfixed (Arrows fly further at a lower framerate, for example). I would say that something is not working right, somewhere



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    I’d really like you to edit your post about 3 players in council being from RK which is simply spreading misinformations.

    In case you didn’t notice.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    I’d really like you to edit your post about 3 players in council being from RK which is simply spreading misinformations.

    You’re right, planetus, dubjay, blaine and sophax actually makes 4, either RK members or exceptionally closely associated ex members of RK part of the balance council



  • @20k:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    I’d really like you to edit your post about 3 players in council being from RK which is simply spreading misinformations.

    You’re right, planetus, dubjay, blaine and sophax actually makes 4, either RK or freshly out of RK members part of the balance council

    lol “freshly” out of RK? I’ve not been a part of RK for a month, and I was inactive within the clan (and by that extension the team) for 2 months prior thanks to surgery.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    2 members from RK not 3, just as 2 members from VQ in America.
    I can’t see Americans complaining.

    There is one Vq member me on the NA balance council.

    BB is clanless.

    Fletch is in F.

    Padawan is in Int.


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