Feinting is not needed.



  • On the feinting subject I think that feinting should be completely removed, as feinting is simply unrealistic as… OK imagine in a real life scenario you are swinging this giant 100lb hammer overhead and you attempt to somehow INSTANTLY stop your attack in a “feint” while swinging full force, this would not happen as you would already have your own momentum behind the weapon. Even something like a sword is going to hurt your arm if you are swinging full-force and try and stop it instantly. Also with dragswinging, jumping, ducking, sidestepping, comboing, etc etc I know that it’s quite easy to get around blocks without having to use feint, so for people that are saying “YOU CAN’T GO THROUGH BLOCKS WITHOUT FEINT!” are simply inexperienced players that don’t know much about the games mechanics, and rely on feint as a crutch instead of learning how to get around blocks. The only real issue with removing feint would be, if you were in a team game and you wanted to cancel an attack so you wouldn’t hit a teammate. So perhaps have a 2 second recovery after using feint meaning you can’t swing for 2 seconds after using feint.(so people know you can’t swing for those next few seconds). With this idea you’d actually have to use SKILL to get around blocks, instead of just relying on feint which is a crutch for bad players. And players that say feint requires skill, are simply the ones that spam it constantly and can’t get around blocks without it.

    TL:DR feinting is not needed as there are far more skill mechanics that can be used to get around blocks. If you want to argue against that, please read my ENTIRE post before responding. Thank you.



  • Pointless thread if you read the official TBS stance

    viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13729



  • @gregcau:

    Pointless thread if you read the official TBS stance

    viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13729

    You obviously did not read my entire post, Please read the entire post before responding. Thank You.



  • This game is but a shadow of what it could potentially be due to the presence of this mind-bogglingly stupid game mechanic. It shouldn’t even be in the game at all but even worse is it’s current unrefined state which renders it moronically overpowered and easily exploited and rewards terrible play.

    If it should stay, feinting needs to be a high-risk maneuver that could cost you your life if your foe doesn’t fall for it. In its current state and in the upcoming beta state it is NOT like this and probably never will be. Players will continue to abuse and spam this mechanic for it bypasses their lack of skill and lets them get easy kills. That is the true reason why this mechanic exists and will always exist.



  • @Goden:

    This game is but a shadow of what it could potentially be due to the presence of this mind-bogglingly stupid game mechanic. It shouldn’t even be in the game at all but even worse is it’s current unrefined state which renders it moronically overpowered and easily exploited and rewards terrible play.

    Then why are you still playing? If you are so convinced this is what the game is about, just un-install, and stop posting here. You said multiple times you were uninstalling so get it over with. As I’ve stated many times before. Try feinting as much as you think it’s overpowered in high level team play, and watch yourself fail miserably.

    If it should stay, feinting needs to be a high-risk maneuver that could cost you your life if your foe doesn’t fall for it.

    If your opponent doesn’t fall for it, you take a hit. Just as if your opponent does fall for it, your enemy takes a hit.

    Similarly, if you can react well enough to feint-to-parry if you see the enemy attacking you, you’re losing a large stamina pool (though I think combo feinting stamina should cost 25 instead of 15, like in beta). Even then, the enemy can feint that attack and the result would go as follows (assuming beta stamina values):

    Player A hits player B

    Player A follows up with a combo feint and goes for another attack (25 stamina),

    Player A realizes he is attacking instead of parrying, and combo-feints to parry (25 stamina).

    Player B feints that attack and hits him.

    Player A has 50 stamina left; player B has 85, and are on equal footing in HP.

    Player B has initiative.

    Pretty devastating punishment if you ask me. Half his stamina is drained and he takes a hit, while granting initiative to player B.

    @brewergamer:

    @gregcau:

    Pointless thread if you read the official TBS stance

    viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13729

    You obviously did not read my entire post, Please read the entire post before responding. Thank You.

    You obviously did not read TBS’s stance before posting. Thank You.



  • Feinting is a natural part of any combat involved activity.

    I challenge you to find a melee based combat activity that doesn’t have the use of feinting. Go watch watch YouTubes of various martial arts tournments both unarmed and armed, and you will see plenty of fakes, slight lifts of legs, a half-jab, a waving of a Bokken and so on. Better yet, take up a martial arts that includes sparing and see just how often people feint.

    Feinting should stay, and it will.



  • Also, to push my feint campaign. Feinting in its live form is good, it is just too damn cheap. It needs to cost HEAPS more stamina.

    Some of that stamina should be reimbursed if it is a feint->parry.



  • Feinting in real life is not impossible to react to. In fact, most feints in real life are fairly easy to spot and even if you fall for it, you still have a good chance of being able to block the change in attack.



  • @Toll:

    Feinting is a natural part of any combat involved activity.

    .

    Real feints don’t involve starting a full-force swing of a 50+pound weapon and then stopping it instantly in the blink of an eye and going back to ready position and instantly attacking again. Real feints are not full-force swings and look much different than real legit swing. This is the problem with Chivalry.



  • Real feints don’t involve starting a full-force swing of a 50+pound weapon and then stopping it instantly in the blink of an eye and going back to ready position and instantly attacking again. Real feints are not full-force swings and look much different than real legit swing. This is the problem with Chivalry.

    Whilst your numbers are inaccurate: A longsword for instant only way 1-2Kg, or 2-3.5 pounds for you backward Americans), your logic behind it is sound. A feint messes up your windup and as such it should reduce the damage done in the following hit.

    Feints in real fights that continue into real swings will involve doing slight circular movements to keep as much of the momentum up as possible with the least amount of ‘stamina’ wasted. Economy of movement. Now IMO chivalry should simulate this by making the actual HIT after a feint do less damage, the more one feints before the hit the less damage the hit does. A feint->feint->feint->hit should do a minute amount of damage, however the benefit is it will almost always land.



  • @Toll:

    Real feints don’t involve starting a full-force swing of a 50+pound weapon and then stopping it instantly in the blink of an eye and going back to ready position and instantly attacking again. Real feints are not full-force swings and look much different than real legit swing. This is the problem with Chivalry.

    Whilst your numbers are inaccurate: A longsword for instant only way 1-2Kg, or 2-3.5 pounds for you backward Americans), your logic behind it is sound. A feint messes up your windup and as such it should reduce the damage done in the following hit.

    I said that because massive weapons like the Grand Mace, Maul, Zweihander, Claymore, etc can all be brought to a dead-stop INSTANTLY by feinting. I know this game isn’t about realism but this isn’t only a game-balance issue this is simply moronic. A weapon of that size should not be able to be feinted with a full-force swing. Period. If you actually tried to do that it would just fly out of your hands due to momentum or worse - damage your arms.

    1H weapons not so much - but like you said the followup attack shouldn’t be full damage because you didn’t do a proper windup.



  • Feints are more devastating on quick weapons as it is - this is why you can feint slow weapons like the maul just as easily. It’s a necessary sacrifice of realism for balance.

    Simply reducing damage of feinted attacks will require a massive rebalancing of the game, because just saying “feinted attacks do 20% less damage” or something will very often end up with situations where weapon A now needs an extra attack to get a kill if you feint, but weapon B doesn’t, so weapon B’s feints are exactly as strong as they are now.



  • A longsword for instant only way 1-2Kg, or 2-3.5 pounds for you backward Americans)

    1 kg is approximately 2.20462 pounds.

    Don’t ask me how I know this off the top of my head.



  • Your right, I just like round numbers ;P

    Simply reducing damage of feinted attacks will require a massive rebalancing of the game, because just saying “feinted attacks do 20% less damage” or something will very often end up with situations where weapon A now needs an extra attack to get a kill if you feint, but weapon B doesn’t, so weapon B’s feints are exactly as strong as they are now.

    O yes it would, surely though, that would be easier then endless tweaking such seemingly abstract things such as milisecond timing of when a feint will cost more to execute or slow down recovery (not saying that it shouldn’t be part of it too).

    Has anyone at TB sat down and done the maths as to what damage reduction % does to number of hits required to kill an opponent?

    A possible workaround for this is that the %damage reduction is slightly different for each weapon, so that it will always lead to an extra strike needed.

    **However you miss an excellent opportunity to distinguish similar weapons. If weapon A is used to feint it requires 1 extra strike to kill a Knight. However weapon B, if feinted with, requires the same number of strikes to kill a Knight then Weapon B would be the preferred option. However Weapon B is slower overall so you have to trade of better feints for lower speed.

    Broadsword vs Falchion for instance. If the Falchion feint was better then the broadsword due to strike damage after feint it would be a viable weapon, you can trade that off with taking the broadsword because it is a better all rounder, in those times you need to feint though it is weaker.
    **

    This also leads to giving an insight into your unknown opponent, if he is wielding the Falchion it would be reasonable to presume he likes to feint, so you know to expect that and adjust your strategy accordingly…



  • Damn that is a good idea. I didn’t even think of that until you brought up the problem of hit-strikes to kill.

    See kids, this is how discussion works. If both sides listen, interesting ideas can be developed.



  • @Toll:

    Damn that is a good idea. I didn’t even think of that until you brought up the problem of hit-strikes to kill.

    See kids, this is how discussion works. If both sides listen, interesting ideas can be developed.

    You like to read your own posts Toll don’t you? ;)

    But really, this idea of lowering damage with each feint is interesting…for me Torn should at least try it in beta (come on, if they try something as strange as current feint change).

    It really opens up weapon list and gives much more depth to it. Knowing which weapon is good at feints gives you an option to predict that THIS guy will use them…just another level of mind games…which I like.



  • I my have to endure the flaming now, but I dont want the weapons to be so different that I have to choose weapon X for strategy Y. I do enjoy using weapons because I like the looks, having to choose a different one because of my playstyle would take away some fun for me…



  • Lowering damage does not fix the fundamental issue. Unless attacks after a feint deal 90% less damage, I’d still have a sour note in my mouth if I got hit by one or tricked someone else by it, because it is simply too easy to do so.



  • Sure it’s not fixing the fundamental issue, but indirectly lowers the usage of feint spamming due to a tradeoff.

    Still you could add higher stamina drain on top of that and/or some KIND of animation indicating what the hell is going on. I don’t know the timings but (let’s just say 0.15-0.2) animation of feint would give some kind of readable info.

    With good footwork on attacker side it would be still pretty damn hard to avoid hit after feint that you fell for but in the same time you would get a window of opportunity to backpedal, sidestep or whatever.

    I am all for fast skillbased combat but If we are slowing down dodges to be on par with other skills and be readable, why not try it with feints? :)




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