Weapon talk : Bastard swords



  • Bastard swords are one of the best overall weapons that are only available for Knights, they also have one-handed versions with and without shields, but I will be doing those in their own thread.

    Longsword

    ! Longsword
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 75 Cut F: 300 = 0.5/0.675/0.55/0.75 = 1.8
    ! Attack2 : 82 Cut F: 300 = 0.525/0.675/0.6/0.75 = 1.875
    ! Attack3 : 61 F: 300 Pierce = 0.6/0.7/0.4/0.85 = 1.85
    ! Reach : 58
    ! Fact : One hits kill Archers to head.

    Sword of War

    ! Sword of War
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 65 Cut F: 300 = 0.5/0.675/0.6/0.7 = 1.8
    ! Attack2 : 70 Cut F: 300 = 0.5/0.675/0.525/0.65 = 1.675
    ! Attack3 : 68 Pierce F: 300 = 0.6/0.675/0.4/0.75 = 1.75
    ! Reach : 54
    ! Fact :

    Messer

    ! Messer
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 99 Cut F: 300 = 0.525/0.7/0.6/0.8 = 1.925
    ! Attack2 : 90 CutBlunt F: 300 = 0.55/0.7/0.6/0.8 = 1.95
    ! Attack3 : 60 Pierce F: 300 = 0.7/0.75/0.4/0.8 = 1.9
    ! Reach : 44
    ! Fact : One hits kill Archers to head and Two hits kill Knights to head.
    Balance discussion.

    Weapon damage value dedicated for the weapon talk threads can be found here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Weapon talk : URL Threads
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14535

    Up to date change suggestions:
    Date: None

    ! None



  • The overhead-stab combo on bastard swords (especially the sword of war) feels way too fast and could use a slight speed reduction.

    Stabbing after a parry feels a bit too fast as well. Sometimes it looks like I’m getting hit before the windup animation is even over.



  • @David:

    The overhead-stab combo on bastard swords (especially the sword of war) feels way too fast and could use a slight speed reduction.

    Stabbing after a parry feels a bit too fast as well. Sometimes it looks like I’m getting hit before the windup animation is even over.

    All you do is block their fast SOW parry combo. They don’t expect it. Do what they do to you back to them. They are usually shooed and don’t expect it. You will get the hit the first time. They might realise the secondtime.

    And stab overhead combos with those swords aren’t that fast. And many of them do a lookdown down so after you get stabbed mash that block button untill he parries. Your flinch will finish before his windup does.



  • @lemonater47:

    And stab overhead combos with those swords aren’t that fast. And many of them do a lookdown down so after you get stabbed mash that block button untill he parries. Your flinch will finish before his windup does.

    You don’t have to mash buttons in this game, your inputs queue.



  • As Dave mentioned, the SOW sometimes hits while winding up which is really quite annoying. which makes it feel a bit to overpowered.

    I like the longsword, sometimes as with SOW this one stabs during windup as well, but not as often. It feels pretty balanced and got a fair amount of speed/reach/damage.

    The messer is quite good in the right hands, which would be anyones but mine i’m to used to vanguardswords so as a knight I always failt to use them properly as they’re to short. A slash and an overhead seems to be able to take out a knight if you hit the head at least once. it’s a bit slower than the other swords, but unlike them theres no windup stab before I’d even be able to stab sort of move so at the moment it seems to be the only bastard sword to use during “fair play”, aka being balanced.



  • @Xylvion:

    As Dave mentioned, the SOW sometimes hits while winding up which is really quite annoying. which makes it feel a bit to overpowered.

    I like the longsword, sometimes as with SOW this one stabs during windup as well, but not as often. It feels pretty balanced and got a fair amount of speed/reach/damage.
    […]

    Stabs hitting while appearing to still pull back is a problem with nearly all weapons if the attacker is close enough. It’s a combination of latency and animation display, since it always looks fine on the attacker’s screen. A facehug stab will obviously hit nigh-instantly, so for the attacker it looks like just a slight movement forward, whereas for the defender, it stills looks like the sword is being pulled back and about to strike.

    You have to block weapon timings, not animations, or develop your own understanding of animation cues. It’s something you get used to, but is definitely unintuitive because of that slight animation delay.



  • I think it’s pretty much myself and only a few other people in Aus that main Knight with the Messer, at least in duel fights. I love it!

    People think by the stats it’s some kind of slow/tiny sword, and I always catch people out with it :D

    The strong slash damage is really handy when hit trading other Knights, the reasonably slower combo times also make it harder to read when using good footwork. Some of the regulars I fight get angry at it, switch to it then go “How the hell can you use this, it’s nothing like my SOW :(” Then give up, hehehehe.



  • I dont have much experience here, so Ill only state what I know for sure: SOW is used ALOT more than the others.



  • @Towe:

    I dont have much experience here, so Ill only state what I know for sure: SOW is used ALOT more than the others.

    Longsword is the most popular in competitive play, and I haven’t the foggiest reason why, lol. Statistically, the SoW is a little bit superior, but the main advantage the Longsword has over the SoW is range.



  • I don’t like how the bastard sword tree for the knight make all the other weapons for the knight look like shit. I kind of feel these 3 swords are the most powerful weapons in the game and need to be nerfed.



  • @Martin:

    Longsword is the most popular in competitive play, and I haven’t the foggiest reason why, lol. Statistically, the SoW is a little bit superior, but the main advantage the Longsword has over the SoW is range.

    Delays. Longsword release is bigger. And the range advantage is very very very (put more verys here) small.



  • 1 Handing Bastard swords without shields might be coming soon.



  • I can tell you that the SoW stab is pretty easy to hit a head with for some reason, especially during a jump.

    Pair that weapon with a Pole-axe and you got quite a deadly combo.

    Pole axe works with anything if it headshots with the overhead though.



  • @Daiyuki:

    . . .
    You have to block weapon timings, not animations, or develop your own understanding of animation cues. It’s something you get used to, but is definitely unintuitive because of that slight animation
    delay.

    This is a problem though, if I block to early he might feint but if I don’t block early enough there might be some sort of “ghost swing” and i’ll get hit by it before. The problem is that the hit detection’s client-sided, just the other day there was some immense lag on one of the official servers (been the last week in EU at least) and after it reverted back to normal there was this dude about 10-15 meters away who somehow managed to land a hit on me during the lagperiod, he was still far away and had to run up to me to try and get a second shot at me. This is why it’s annoying with people who got high ping on the servers as well, they may appear somewhere else than they’re actually at which makes it impossible to block some of them, even if you yourself succeed to block you might get hurt afterwards because on his screen you didn’t block until after you were hit.

    Sorry for being a bit off topic.



  • @KILLBANDS:

    I don’t like how the bastard sword tree for the knight make all the other weapons for the knight look like shit. I kind of feel these 3 swords are the most powerful weapons in the game and need to be nerfed.

    MESSER OP :((((((((((((((

    Loljk?



  • To me it does seem like some of those parry-counter stabs, particularly with the likes of the SoW are so fast that you can’t actually react to them per se, but rather you have to “guess” if it is coming.

    By that I mean it doesn’t seem like there is enough room to parry if you wait until you see the riposte stab incoming. Seems like your only chance of parrying those stabs is to queue your parry up early before you see it, which would mean you are basically predicting a riposte. Predict wrong and ye buggered.



  • @AngryDave:

    To me it does seem like some of those parry-counter stabs, particularly with the likes of the SoW are so fast that you can’t actually react to them per se, but rather you have to “guess” if it is coming.

    By that I mean it doesn’t seem like there is enough room to parry if you wait until you see the riposte stab incoming. Seems like your only chance of parrying those stabs is to queue your parry up early before you see it, which would mean you are basically predicting a riposte. Predict wrong and ye buggered.

    Pretty much this. Combo and riposte stabs with the SoW are stupidly fast and the only way to really deal with them is to queue a parry before they even do it. Although many have figured out they can easily get around this by facehugging and jumping while so the tip of their SoW hits the top or back of your head. This angle combined with the facehugging makes blocking it a complete farce.



  • @-Thylacine-:

    MESSER OP :((((((((((((((

    Loljk?

    I have made many people on many occasions tell me off for using the Messer as it’s OP according to them, :O



  • The stabs on the LS and the SoW are the problem. Nerf the combo times on the LS and SoW stabs significantly and shorten the release so you can’t stab drag.



  • @Martin:

    @Towe:

    I dont have much experience here, so Ill only state what I know for sure: SOW is used ALOT more than the others.

    Longsword is the most popular in competitive play, and I haven’t the foggiest reason why, lol. Statistically, the SoW is a little bit superior, but the main advantage the Longsword has over the SoW is range.

    Longsword can be effectively dragged, SoW cannot (well it can, but it doesn’t have quite as exaggerated an effect as the LS).


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