What's up with the Man-At-Arms?



  • Hi all, I’ve been lurking here a while but decided to register so I could ask this question.

    I’m not a ‘pro player’ by any means, I work full-time and can’t invest as much into a game as some others here do, so take this as a relatively average player’s observations of the game balance. But it seems to me that there’s a serious disparity between the MaA and the Vanguard or Knight. I really only noticed it when I realized that I have never seen a Vanguard or Knight with a 4:1 KD, and that I was regularly seeing MaA players top the scoreboard.

    I just don’t get how the class is balanced against its two heavier counterparts, and a lot of it comes down to mechanics. The MaA’s weapons can interrupt the wind-up of any heavier weapon and can block just as easily, so they don’t have any need to dodge in combat to avoid a hit and can instead use to get into or out of range or sidestep attacks. When playing as a MaA I found it really easy to get just outside a Knight’s range, then quickly dodge in and start slashing him in the face. The Knight has to try to turn almost sideways just to be able to block, and if he tries to attack I can interrupt. If he uses a shield, I can sideways-dodge and slash around it. It doesn’t feel fair at all.

    Low health is a big drawback, but when he can defend himself better than any other class, with the same ability to parry and interrupt but more mobility, it’s hard to get a hit in the first place. Any other class who uses his secondary weapon exclusively is at a disadvantage because of his short range, but the MaA can get into and out of range essentially at will.

    I can shoot them, but their speed makes them pretty hard to hit. And I see how low stamina is a disadvantage, but when they can simply run away and regenerate it it’s difficult to exploit, not to mention the difficulty in parrying a small, fast weapon at point blank makes it hard to go toe-to-toe for an extended amount of time. The most success I’ve had against the MaA has been when I can get an ally or two to help out, but again the mobility makes it difficult to corner him if he’s playing properly.

    Am I missing something here? Nearly every fight I’ve had against a competent MaA immediately devolves into getting spam-slashed at point blank range, being unable to parry, escape, or get an attack in until I drop dead after four or so swings. I really like the game’s core mechanics but the MaA seems to be too good at breaking them. Even if this is a case of ‘l2p nub’ the results on public servers seem to speak for themselves.



  • Well the fact is when you play pubs, noobs basically are never able to parry one handers, also most knights u find in pubs are noobs and unskilled, MaA really aren’t op. Theres a thing we like to call facehugging in this game, where you get super close to ur enemy and hittheir sides but on the defenders screen it doesnt look like that sotheyre really not aiming their parries enough. in competitive play the maa is actually one of the weaker classes along wwith vanguards due to the MaAs low damage and health. vanguards because of low health and no real special. Also, everything you said wasnt fair is very defendable.



  • @Jstorm:

    Well the fact is when you play pubs, noobs basically are never able to parry one handers, also most knights u find in pubs are noobs and unskilled, MaA really aren’t op. Theres a thing we like to call facehugging in this game, where you get super close to ur enemy and hittheir sides but on the defenders screen it doesnt look like that sotheyre really not aiming their parries enough. in competitive play the maa is actually one of the weaker classes along wwith vanguards due to the MaAs low damage and health. vanguards because of low health and no real special. Also, everything you said wasnt fair is very defendable.

    I would very much appreciate specific answers to the points I raised and advice instead of telling me I’m wrong because reasons. What exactly should a knight do to survive close range spam when blocking is inconsistent and quick stabs interrupt his windup?



  • MaA certainly do have the advantage in 1v1 engagements, which is probably the way it should be. If you do find yourself against one in 1v1 as a Knight, switch to your secondary, although you don’t have the movement speed of MaA or dodge ability you will at least level the playing field on weapon speed. If you are having trouble blocking them up close the only solution I can give is to improve your ability to block or run away before they get chance to be too close to you.

    By far the most success I have against MaA though as one of the slower classes is to simply not engage them on their own terms, use your teammates (and theirs too) to your advantage, more players around means less open space which reduces the impact of their speed and dodge. It’s very difficult for the MaA to traverse around his teammates to get you with his short weapon, try and fight someone other than the MaA and keep repositioning yourself so that the MaA is behind your opponent.

    Also bear in mind a MaA is severely handicapped against multiple opponents due to their shorter weapon, they simply cannot hit everyone in one swing, their best option against a group is to go for someone on the outskirts, going for someone in the middle will get them killed due to not being able to flinch everyone/force them to parry.

    Essentially, just use their weaknesses, it’s pretty much only safe for an MaA to engage you when there’s very few people and an open space, so reduce the time you spend away from teammates and in open spaces!



  • …Block better?
    Do counters? Feint to keep him at range?
    Use a shield? Makes it easier to block since you can aim your block all the time after his weapon, aslong as he doesen’t kick you’ll be fine.



  • @Catgut:

    Am I missing something here? Nearly every fight I’ve had against a competent MaA immediately devolves into getting spam-slashed at point blank range, being unable to parry, escape, or get an attack in until I drop dead after four or so swings. I really like the game’s core mechanics but the MaA seems to be too good at breaking them.

    MAA got quite nerfed in Beta, no chase mechanic when facing an opponent, no attacking while dodging.

    I think you will find they may be underpowered depending on which changes go to live.

    Oh and as a knight I always switch to my secondary to deal with MAA and archers.



  • Also, don’t forget combo feint-parry, that’s how you defend yourswlf from the dodge out then dodge back in attack some people say combo feint to parry is OP but the beta proved MaA would be OP without it.



  • Thanks Josh and gregcau for the advice, I have not been playing the beta so I will give that a try and see how the changes have altered the gameplay.

    @-Thylacine-:

    …Block better?
    Do counters? Feint to keep him at range?
    Use a shield? Makes it easier to block since you can aim your block all the time after his weapon, aslong as he doesen’t kick you’ll be fine.

    In order-
    -This is very difficult at point blank range. At best it’s a temporary solution since he can block just as easily and getting a hit in against him is the problem.
    -I have yet to see any use for the counter (riposte?) mechanic, it doesn’t offer enough of a speed boost to prevent the attack from being blocked. Feinting is not an option when I’m getting spammed at until I die, and I don’t see how it keeps people at a distance.
    -Using a shield helps, but with dodge it’s pretty easy to get around, and personally I much prefer to fight someone using a shield, since feint-kick-overhead leads to easy kills. I only take shields as insurance against archers, it just seems like too much of a liability in general combat.

    Anyways, I guess I’ll see if the beta changes things.



  • @Catgut:

    Thanks Josh and gregcau for the advice, I have not been playing the beta so I will give that a try and see how the changes have altered the gameplay.

    @-Thylacine-:

    …Block better?
    Do counters? Feint to keep him at range?
    Use a shield? Makes it easier to block since you can aim your block all the time after his weapon, aslong as he doesen’t kick you’ll be fine.

    In order-
    -This is very difficult at point blank range. At best it’s a temporary solution since he can block just as easily and getting a hit in against him is the problem.
    -I have yet to see any use for the counter (riposte?) mechanic, it doesn’t offer enough of a speed boost to prevent the attack from being blocked. Feinting is not an option when I’m getting spammed at until I die, and I don’t see how it keeps people at a distance.
    -Using a shield helps, but with dodge it’s pretty easy to get around, and personally I much prefer to fight someone using a shield, since feint-kick-overhead leads to easy kills. I only take shields as insurance against archers, it just seems like too much of a liability in general combat.

    Anyways, I guess I’ll see if the beta changes things.

    Everything you said is countered by blocking better. Except for kicking down shields, justdrop ur shield if theyre gonna kick it. Also feinting helps keep MaA at a distance because MaA like to dodgeso they dont have to suffer from feints.



  • Cool… another thread complaining about MAA, causing the devs to continue piling on nerfs to an already shitty class.

    GG, switching to vanguard / knight

    They’re much easier to play anyway, more-so knight.



  • This forum really can’t decide whether to nerf MAA or not.



  • @Catgut:

    Thanks Josh and gregcau for the advice, I have not been playing the beta so I will give that a try and see how the changes have altered the gameplay.

    @-Thylacine-:

    …Block better?
    Do counters? Feint to keep him at range?
    Use a shield? Makes it easier to block since you can aim your block all the time after his weapon, aslong as he doesen’t kick you’ll be fine.

    In order-
    -This is very difficult at point blank range. At best it’s a temporary solution since he can block just as easily and getting a hit in against him is the problem.
    -I have yet to see any use for the counter (riposte?) mechanic, it doesn’t offer enough of a speed boost to prevent the attack from being blocked. Feinting is not an option when I’m getting spammed at until I die, and I don’t see how it keeps people at a distance.
    -Using a shield helps, but with dodge it’s pretty easy to get around, and personally I much prefer to fight someone using a shield, since feint-kick-overhead leads to easy kills. I only take shields as insurance against archers, it just seems like too much of a liability in general combat.

    Anyways, I guess I’ll see if the beta changes things.

    You completly disregarded all my tips in order to make me mad. Or you are just terribly bad.



  • @-Thylacine-:

    You completly disregarded all my tips in order to make me mad. Or you are just terribly bad.

    Your tips aren’t useful since you really aren’t explaining yourself at all. As I said, ‘block better’ is not useful advice, I don’t see how countering helps if I can’t effectively block in the first place, or how feinting helps when the problem is getting hit at point blank range, and shields seem to me more a liability than an asset especially when the enemy in question can dodge around them.

    Would you like to expand on your tips or just insult me again?



  • @Catgut:

    @-Thylacine-:

    You completly disregarded all my tips in order to make me mad. Or you are just terribly bad.

    Your tips aren’t useful since you really aren’t explaining yourself at all. As I said, ‘block better’ is not useful advice, I don’t see how countering helps if I can’t effectively block in the first place, or how feinting helps when the problem is getting hit at point blank range, and shields seem to me more a liability than an asset especially when the enemy in question can dodge around them.

    Would you like to expand on your tips or just insult me again?

    I find looking up to be very helpful when blocking strikes at close range, because it causes your torso to bend backwards, which creates more space between you and your opponent, so the weapon takes longer to get to you, so you get more time to adjust your aim and thus it becomes easier to block!

    If you are at the default Field of View (95) this might be difficult as looking up too much would put them off screen, I’ve set mine to 110 which has a nice wide view without skewing the graphics too much



  • @Josh:

    If you are at the default Field of View (95) this might be difficult as looking up too much would put them off screen, I’ve set mine to 110 which has a nice wide view without skewing the graphics too much

    I use 95 and have never had trouble blocking anything in this game. My map awareness is also great as well.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Josh:

    If you are at the default Field of View (95) this might be difficult as looking up too much would put them off screen, I’ve set mine to 110 which has a nice wide view without skewing the graphics too much

    I use 95 and have never had trouble blocking anything in this game. My map awareness is also great as well.

    Another post by Nova here to remind us that he is perfect and has no problems with anything even though what he said has zero relevance to what he is quoting.

    I’m looking for a container big enough to hold your ego but I’m struggling to find something.



  • @Goden:

    Another post by Nova here to remind us that he is perfect and has no problems with anything even though what he said has zero relevance to what he is quoting.

    I’m looking for a container big enough to hold your ego but I’m struggling to find something.

    I get Nova and Falc mixed up, one was moepork or something and totally owned me in duels.

    But amenblahblah ablah still killed him. Always someone a little better.



  • @gregcau:

    I get Nova and Falc mixed up, one was moepork or something and totally owned me in duels.

    But amenblahblah ablah still killed him. Always someone a little better.

    I’m moepork. Who are you?

    And Amenhotep has got to be the most annoying LMB spammer ever.

    @Goden:

    Another post by Nova here to remind us that he is perfect and has no problems with anything even though what he said has zero relevance to what he is quotingwhile higher FOV can prove to be advantageous, it is a personal preference and it is possible to play with default FOV.

    I’m looking for a container big enough to hold your ego** the vast amount of fucks I give about NoVa’s posts** but I’m struggling to find something that big.

    Fixed.



  • Haha ikr, people have got to stop complaining about MaA it’s so stupid.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @gregcau:

    I get Nova and Falc mixed up, one was moepork or something and totally owned me in duels.

    But amenblahblah ablah still killed him. Always someone a little better.

    I’m moepork. Who are you?

    Cleric

    @Catgut:

    As I said, ‘block better’ is not useful advice

    The key to blocking face huggers, IMO for pub play

    1. Use FOV 120
    2. Mouse sensitivity 60+
    3. Turn 60 to 90 degress to block slashes

Log in to reply