Weapon talk : Spears



  • Powerful sharp metal head attached to a long pole, primary weapon for the Vanguards. Has a noticable disadvantage in close quarter due to no combo ability.

    Thrusting Spear

    ! Thrusting Spear
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 30 Blunt F: 270 = 0.425/0.4/0.625 = 1.45
    ! Attack2 : 70 Pierce F: 250 = 0.725/0.4/0.725 = 1.85
    ! Attack3 : 55 Pierce F: 255 = 0.575/0.3/0.65 = 1.625
    ! Reach : 97
    ! Fact :

    Pitch Fork

    ! Pitch Fork
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 25 Blunt F: 325 = 0.4/0.375/0.6 = 1.375
    ! Attack2 : 60 Pierce F: 225 = 0.55/0.4/0.7 = 1.65
    ! Attack3 : 50 Pierce F: 175 = 0.475/0.3/0.65 = 1.425
    ! Reach : 84
    ! Fact :

    Brandistock

    ! Brandistock
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 50 Blunt F: 325 0.45/0.45/0.65 = 1.55
    ! Attack2 : 95 Pierce F: 225 = 0.8/0.45/0.75 = 2
    ! Attack3 : 60 Pierce F: 225 = 0.55/0.35/0.65 = 1.55
    ! Reach : 95
    ! Fact : One hit kill on Archers and Man-at arms to head with Attack2

    Flag

    ! Flag
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 40 Blunt F: 225 = 0.5/0.45/0.7 = 1.65
    ! Attack2 : 70 Pierce F: 225 = 0.75/0.5/0.8 = 2.05
    ! Attack3 : 50 Pierce F: 225 = 0.6/0.4/0.65 = 1.65
    ! Reach : 87
    ! Fact :
    Balance discussion.

    Weapon damage value dedicated for the weapon talk threads can be found here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Weapon talk : URL Threads
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14535

    Up to date change suggestions:
    Date: None

    ! None



  • Hmm well, to start off the spear should do more damage with the overhead than the stab. That’s more or less all about this weapon.

    The fork, it’s quite hilarious to play with sometimes the problem is the ghostswings it’s as bad if not worse than SOW, at least from my own experience.

    Bandistock is quite alright I guess, sometimes it seems shorter than it is though.

    I think that the alternative overhead on all of these weapons should be like a regular overhead with the other weapons, obviously a low damage attack but something that might surprise people. Atm there’s no difference between the overhead and alt overhead so something should be done about that.



  • I think it would also be worth bringing in the halberd in to any spear discussions, because halberd is basically a spear that can combo, due to it having pretty much the same range as a brandistock.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    I think it would also be worth bringing in the halberd in to any spear discussions, because halberd is basically a spear that can combo, due to it having pretty much the same range as a brandistock.

    Yeah, I actually think comparing the spears to a halberd would be a good way to see how exactly spears should be balanced because spears can’t combo and have bad slashes. So you could buff it in other areas like speed and/or damage to make up for having bad slashes and being unable to combo.



  • Brandistock and Fork really need some buffs, right now they are just inferior Thrusting Spears.

    The Brandistock is a shorter, much slower Spear that has a chance to 1 shot Archers and 2 shots Knights. But unlike other weapons, getting a headshot with the Brandistock is quite hard, because the thrust comes from below. So that weapon really needs a big buff. Tbh I would just put it a Spear speed, so it is shorter but has a small chance to take less hits to kill on 2 classes.

    The Fork….yeah. What are we going to do with it? One solution would be to rename it to Spoon and leave it at that. But one could try to put it let it have the same htk as the Spear and maybe it will be fine with that. I do not think it will ever be a good weapon if it needs 4 hits to a Knight. So make it a shorter, faster Spear.

    I know this may sound dull, but what are you going to do with 3 very long weapons that only differ in a bit of range? Different htk will most likely make one op/up (just like the Spear is the best spear right now, it has pretty much the best htk at the longest range and medium spear speed). So make one fast and “short”, one medium speed and long length and one medium speed and medium length with a chance on a faster kill.

    So here are the values:
    New Brandistock:

    Attack style, Damage, Type, Windup, Release, Recovery
    Attack1 : 50 Blunt 0.6/0.6/0.7
    Attack2 : 90 Pierce = 0.7/0.45/0.75
    Attack3 : 60 Pierce = 0.6/0.4/0.725

    (overhead and stab windup shortened)

    New Fork:
    Attack style, Damage, Type, Windup, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    Attack1 : 40 Blunt = 0.5/0.6/0.7
    Attack2 : 70 Pierce = 0.6/0.4/0.75
    Attack3 : 60 Pierce = 0.5/0.3/0.725

    Damage set to Spear damage, overhead slowed to not make it op.



  • I think that’ll work.



  • @Falc:

    I know this may sound dull, but what are you going to do with 3 very long weapons that only differ in a bit of range?

    Would be nice to have one (the spear?) beeing the best for the quick stab, one for the slow stab and one that uses both well.



  • Random idea that doesn’t fit the current Vanguard and will never happen but I’m going to say it anyway because we can all dream right?

    One spear, at least a short-medium length one, should probably have been usable with a Shield and can combo (reference to AoC:CR3; similar to armoured sergeants in M2TW and is like the current SoW/Shield, 4 hits Knights/3 hits Vanguards unless multiple headshots are made to bring it down to three/two respectively), and then there could have been a specific 2H spear that cannot be used with a shield but can combo between two different stabs doing medium damage, like what the current ‘Spear’ does, just with combos. Then you could probably have a really slow but powerful one (cannot be used with shield also) used for 2 hitting everything but cannot combo (a bit like the Brandistock, statistics wise, and is more reliable on its 2 hits). Three very unique weapons, but basically something more suited to a different game.



  • You should be able to choose the flag as a primary weapon option for any class in any game mode (except for CTF to avoid confusion)

    It is so fun to use.

    Yes, I am entirely serious.



  • I would use a flag. It is manly.



  • Bringing the brandi up to 95 on it’s overhead give it the ablility to headshot a MAA, without changing it’s hit to kill on any other class. An interesting idea to make the brandi more distinctive.



  • @Knil:

    Bringing the brandi up to 95 on it’s overhead give it the ablility to headshot a MAA, without changing it’s hit to kill on any other class. An interesting idea to make the brandi more distinctive.

    Sounds like a good idea but a headshot with that thrust from below is really hard to get. Would be a needed buff and definitely not over the top.



  • The spears are fine overall, but I think the spear should be a bit faster. Also the fork should become useful.



  • One of the spears having an optional heater-shield would be nice, but probably won’t happen.
    One of the spears, maybe the fork, having the ability to combo would be nice.



  • @afiNity:

    The spears are fine overall, but I think the spear should be a bit faster. Also the fork should become useful.

    I realized that this is a bit misleading. With “spear” I mean thrusting spear.



  • @Oy:

    One of the spears having an optional heater-shield would be nice, but probably won’t happen.
    One of the spears, maybe the fork, having the ability to combo would be nice.

    This is actually quite interesting, although I think that a backseated shield (kinda like the pavise, or w/e it’s called) would fit more, and the kiteshield looks more “vanguardish” in my opinion. So a backseated kiteshield as an option instead of throwables wouldn’t hurt I guess.



  • @Xylvion:

    @Oy:

    One of the spears having an optional heater-shield would be nice, but probably won’t happen.
    One of the spears, maybe the fork, having the ability to combo would be nice.

    This is actually quite interesting, although I think that a backseated shield (kinda like the pavise, or w/e it’s called) would fit more, and the kiteshield looks more “vanguardish” in my opinion. So a backseated kiteshield as an option instead of throwables wouldn’t hurt I guess.

    Doesn’t matter what shield it is, the point is that it can only be equipped with one or two of the spears so we don’t see Vanguards running around with shield and zwiehander.



  • Not sure if this would be a good idea… We already have javelins combined with shields.



  • I would love a shield option for Vanguard replacing the throwables, even if it’s only a buckler (I’d say giving them a Heater would be fine too), for keeping on your back and as an option for combining with the secondary one-handers.

    I don’t think they should wield spears one handed with a shield, not unless a new spear specifically designed for one hand (like a longer reach unthrowable javelin) gets added.



  • @afiNity:

    Not sure if this would be a good idea… We already have javelins combined with shields.

    Javelins with shield is alright, but it’s not a melee class. To use javelin and shield in melee is to purposely use a weak weapon with short reach and a one-shot-kill class against knights and vans. A dedicated shield and spear class that’s good at doing damage at range, with a shield for added defense, would be ideal. Simply adding a new spear or tweaking the stats of an existing one is enough.


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