Weapon talk : Staves



  • Staves only contains one weapon for the time being, the Quarter staff and is the first two-handed weapon and only available for the Man-at arms

    Special:
    Two-hander with one-hander stamina penality on miss.

    Quarter Staff

    ! Quarter Staff
    ! Attack style, Damage, Type, Force, Windup, Combo, Release, Recovery and W+R+R.
    ! Attack1 : 45 Blunt F: 225 = 0.4/0.6/0.4/0.6 = 1.4
    ! Attack2 : 50 Blunt F: 225 = 0.425/0.6/0.4/0.6 = 1.425
    ! Attack3 : 45 Blunt F: 225 = 0.4/0.65/0.35/0.6 = 1.35
    ! Reach : 43
    ! Fact : Block strenght as One-handers
    Balance discussion.

    Weapon damage value dedicated for the weapon talk threads can be found here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=82

    Weapon talk : URL Threads
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14535

    Up to date change suggestions:
    Date: None

    ! None



  • I think because it is such a small staff it should have SUPER fast combos and a super short recovery. My idea that could be pretty unique and is to give it these speed stats:

    (Windup, combo, release, recovery)

    slash: current: 0.425/0.65/0.4/0.6
    new: 0.425/0.5/0.4/0.4

    OH: current: 0.45/0.65/0.4/0.6
    new: 0.45/0.55/0.4/0.4

    stab: current: .4/0.65/0.35/0.6
    new: 0.4/0.525/0.35/0.4

    This might be OP fast but it might be worth testing.



  • I like to aim for realism, so here’s some changes in keeping with that:

    Attack1 Combo 0.65>0.6, Recovery 0.6>0.55
    Attack2 Combo 0.65>0.6, Recovery 0.6>0.55
    Attack3 Damagetype Blunt>PierceBlunt, Combo 0.65>0.6

    Faster recovery on the swings because it’s a light weapon held in two hands with a very wide gap between hands, giving excellent leverage and control, allowing you to recover easily.

    Faster combo because the weapon has two ends to strike from, meaning the weapon is always ready to deliver another strike (all we need is an Alt-Stab animation so a quarterstaff ending on the left comboing into stab doesn’t look weird)

    PierceBlunt damage type on stabs because if you look at the weapon model it does in fact have nasty metal spikes on the ends. Would definitely be drawing some blood, not just causing bruising.

    I’d say the Quarterstaff is in need of a slight buff. Almost nobody uses it (except for SlyGoat), due to its very weak damage.

    However, that said, I don’t think buffing the damage is the right way to go about buffing it, since low damage is one of its defining characteristics. Better recovery and combos would improve it without potentially overpowering it.

    I don’t think the stab really needs much of a buff (which is why I left its recovery as is) as it is already the best attack the Quarterstaff has due to the higher speed and longer reach, whilst still dealing the same damage as the horizontal.

    On a side note, if TB intends to add more weapons the staves weapon class could really use a Long Staff… something with say 40% longer reach, the same horizontal/overhead damage, lower stab damage and significantly slower attacks.
    Something akin to a Halberd missing its head.



  • @Dibbz:

    I like to aim for realism, so here’s some changes in keeping with that:

    Attack1 Combo 0.65>0.6, Recovery 0.6>0.55
    Attack2 Combo 0.65>0.6, Recovery 0.6>0.55
    Attack3 Damagetype Blunt>PierceBlunt, Combo 0.65>0.6

    Faster recovery on the swings because it’s a light weapon held in two hands with a very wide gap between hands, giving excellent leverage and control, allowing you to recover easily.

    Faster combo because the weapon has two ends to strike from, meaning the weapon is always ready to deliver another strike (all we need is an Alt-Stab animation so a quarterstaff ending on the left comboing into stab doesn’t look weird)

    PierceBlunt damage type on stabs because if you look at the weapon model it does in fact have nasty metal spikes on the ends. Would definitely be drawing some blood, not just causing bruising.

    I’d say the Quarterstaff is in need of a slight buff. Almost nobody uses it (except for SlyGoat), due to its very weak damage.

    However, that said, I don’t think buffing the damage is the right way to go about buffing it, since low damage is one of its defining characteristics. Better recovery and combos would improve it without potentially overpowering it.

    I don’t think the stab really needs much of a buff (which is why I left its recovery as is) as it is already the best attack the Quarterstaff has due to the higher speed and longer reach, whilst still dealing the same damage as the horizontal.

    On a side note, if TB intends to add more weapons the staves weapon class could really use a Long Staff… something with say 40% longer reach, the same horizontal/overhead damage, lower stab damage and significantly slower attacks.

    You do realize the quarter staff has shortsword damage except it’s blunt which is why making it slightly slower than the shortsword is how it should and could buffed, so my buff(being slightly slower than the shortsword) is the way to go. Also, the shortsword and quarter staff have quite similar reach so I don’t think my buff would be OP.

    Shortsword
    slash: 40 damage(swing)
    OH: 45 damage(swing)
    stab: 50 damage(pierce)

    Quarterstaff
    slash: 40 damage(blunt)
    OH: 45 damage(blunt)
    stab: 40 damage(blunt)



  • I don’t think balancing it based on the Shortsword is a good idea… they both fill different roles.

    The Quarterstaff has more reach (especially with the stab) and is less likely to miss due to the double-hit-tracers on swings (especially the horizontal).

    Plus being a two-hander makes it have cheaper and faster feints (although AFAIK it’s considered a one-hander for parries and being parried)

    It needs a buff, but making its speed the same as the Short Sword is a bit too much.

    I mean I wouldn’t by outraged by that kind of buff, I just don’t think it’s necessary.

    Edit: Don’t get me wrong, you raise a good point about exactly how slow it really is, maybe a slightly more generous buff than what I suggested is in order, say

    Attack1 Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.5
    Attack2 Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.5
    Attack3 Damagetype Blunt>PierceBlunt, Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.55



  • It needs a buff, but making its speed the same as the Short Sword is a bit too much.

    Like I said, my idea isn’t quite as fast as a shortsword but my idea was indeed VERY fast. I said myself it might be OP.

    Attack1 Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.5
    Attack2 Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.5
    Attack3 Damagetype Blunt>PierceBlunt, Combo 0.65>0.575, Recovery 0.6>0.55

    That might be perfect but as for my opinion I’m not really feelin it would be enough. Maybe just sliiiiighlyyy faster than this, combo and recovery wise.



  • I do get what you’re saying, I’m just rather hesitant to stray so far from the current value. Over-buffing a weapon is worse for game balance than leaving it underpowered.

    Considering it is so light for its size and has so much leverage with the spaced 2-handed grip I’d love for it to have a nice fast recovery. Maybe 0.45 (0.5 for stab).

    Although I don’t think going lower than 0.575 combo time would be wise… the fastest MaA primary combo is 0.6, and anything lower than that is reserved strictly for secondaries.

    I know the Quarterstaff is a very unique weapon, but I think balancing it by the standards of a MaA primary is the healthiest way to go about it.



  • Okay, sounds good. I’d really like to see these changes implemented in the next beta.


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