The problem with feint is really a problem with parry



  • In the real world, a parry is just a type of weapon hit, just like a slash, stab, and overhead. It is simply such a move targeted at the opponent’s weapon rather than at his person.

    Chivalry simplifies these to model them in the game, of course, but parry is modeled entirely differently than the other weapon hits, and much more simply: there is no windup / release / recovery, there is just a simple push of a button and you are committed to an action that has to play itself out while you watch helplessly.

    A feint is basically the ability to cancel a weapon hit part of the way through. If you could also cancel a parry up to a certain point, you could respond to a feint, and then have some chance of realizing that it isn’t a real strike and cancel your parry, leaving yourself a chance of parrying the next attack. This would make the feint mechanic much more reasonable. Feints would still have a chance of making you screw up, but they wouldn’t be such an all or nothing crap-shoot.

    That’s MY stab at a solution. But to be more abstract and long-winded, here is my take on what the general problem is:

    In the real world, a feint doesn’t make you execute some action that you can’t recover from period; it makes you put your weapon in a position to block in one area, but which makes it more difficult to block an attack coming into a different area (which is where the attacker puts his next attack). It’s a much subtler thing than Chivalry is making it. Granted, Chivalry has to simplify how it models combat. The problem feint is running into is that the simplifications turn it into something very artificial and not very palatable to a lot of people. These simplifications and how well or poorly they model the real world need to be re-examined. All the complicated tweaking of the current model that are being played with are not going to solve the problem. You need to reexamine the model.



  • Well this idea is at least worth trying I think.



  • It’s been suggested before, and I agree that it’s a better and more realistic way of treating it. In real life “feints” are more likely to be an attack that looks like it’s coming from one direction that changes to another. For example a classic is a move that starts by from above, looking like it’s going for a head strike and then change mid swing to a leg strike.

    But of course in real life you can change your parry to be in another position so if you spot the move in time you can change to a leg block. Or step back and avoid the hit.

    However I feel it’s far too late to change Chivalry that dramatically. Timed parries are here to stay as are feints.

    The only thing that I can think of that could be implemented that one can take from real life historical combat, is the idea that feinted attacks tend to do less damage because instead of winding up and attacking with full force you’ve pulled the blow slightly to change direction.

    Maybe feinted attacks should do less damage then?



  • What about keeping parry the way it is but introduce weapon clashing.



  • The problem with feint is that people can’t attain the required level of skills mastery to defend against it. So they call for it to be nerfed, in Beta4 it is easy enough for most people to defend against it. Easy-mode.



  • @Toll:

    The problem with feint is that people can’t attain the required level of skills mastery to defend against it. So they call for it to be nerfed, in Beta4 it is easy enough for most people to defend against it. Easy-mode.

    That’s what apparently some people want…. Easy mode.

    Everything has to be handed to them.



  • well, in pvk2 there is no such problem. still there are faints too. but much simpler handled.
    taking the fact away they implemented something called “auto parry” (that lets you block in the direcktion your enemy attacks from) removing it would make that game very realistic and awesome melee experience.



  • I agree completely, tc. You can cancel and attack animation but you cannot cancel a block animation. This is why feint doesn’t work.



  • The only problem with feinting in this game is judging a real swing from a feint due to certain alt attacks being so fast you have no choice but to block just to cover your ass. Weapon speeds need to get balanced first before game mechanics are changed. You don’t see people falling for maul overheads as much as you do broadsword overheads, why? Because its far easier to tell if its a fake or not. You actually have time to respond unlike an alt overhead from a broadsword. Without feinting this game would be a brutally long non productive battle between players just constantly parry trading.



  • @giantyak:

    What about keeping parry the way it is but introduce weapon clashing.

    Might as well make a whole new game - Chiv 3 should be exciting.

    As a guy who used to feint a lot, I realized why I was doing it. I simply ran out of options. I almost gave up on this game until I discovered how to do… other things. But these other things made the game more fun and now as a general principle, I never feint unless it’s to cancel an attack. This isn’t saying I hate feints or they dumb the game down, but some people really don’t have other options against a really good player who has a solid defense which leads to a longer fight which probably gets you killed due to the other guy having help.

    Feints are necessary for other reasons - team damage for example, would be out of this world if feints were removed.

    If you’re going to remove feinting or even combo feinting, other aspects have to be tweaked - otherwise slower weapons will not stand a chance. We’re seeing this now in the beta.

    TL;DR - play the beta and only then form an opinion.





  • I try my best not to feint but its always the high lvl 40+ desperate nerds running around cheesing with feints etc.

    It is simply a easy way to win.If i feint you twice on the first hit and your are being honorable you will have the disadvantage now and the lamer will most likely win the duel due to getting in the first hit.

    Its so sad that most of the game revolved around this stupidly unrealistic and previously unheard of mechanic.



  • @rdonnell:

    I try my best not to feint but its always the high lvl 40+ desperate nerds running around cheesing with feints etc.

    It is simply a easy way to win.If i feint you twice on the first hit and your are being honorable you will have the disadvantage now and the lamer will most likely win the duel due to getting in the first hit.

    Its so sad that most of the game revolved around this stupidly unrealistic and previously unheard of mechanic.

    Previously unheard of? Isn’t feint in the tutorial?

    But thanks for the desperate nerds comment, but I’m not quite rank 40 yet so can I still have the title? Pretty please???



  • @rdonnell:

    It is simply a easy way to win.If i feint you twice on the first hit and your are being honorable you will have the disadvantage now and the lamer will most likely win the duel due to getting in the first hit.

    I laugh at anyone who tries to feint the initial attack, especially someone who feints twice in a row.

    It serves no purpose other than a waste of stamina.



  • unheard of in battle my friend as how many times on the battlefield do knights run around and feint attack.It must be something someone else dreamt up in one of the other medieval combat games i guess and they have imported it thinking its cool?



  • +1





  • @Daiyuki:

    @MUSASHI:

    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=10784

    Do you even play this game?

    I’ve been in games with MUSASHI. Quite skilled imo.



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    @Daiyuki:

    @MUSASHI:

    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=10784

    Do you even play this game?

    I’ve been in games with MUSASHI. Quite skilled imo.

    Literally never seen him/her/it. Seen LuBu like twice, but I believe he dropped out of Shu, so that leaves… 1 member?



  • I don’t like using feints it feels cheap. But I do fast counter attacks instead. I only feint of I’m bored and locked into a hit block cycle. The other guy is probably gonna do it anyway.

    I found out ducking is a very useful stratagy against feints. As most people feint with an LMB strike. You also get a bit more time to duck. Its hilarious.

    And the maul. When it feints. It works backwards. When someone feints many people spam that right click to try and get another parry up. They stop when they do. With a maul what happens a lot is that persons second parry will be up. Bit by the tile the maul hits the parry has finished. That’s pretty funny.


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