TOP 10 archers in comp play who u think ?



  • pst your input! :)



  • There’s already a thread on something like this. Search function does wonders.



  • But will it be locked for necro’ing?



  • where plz post link>?



  • Imo

    1. LJ from Kila
    2. bigs from F
    3. Fletch - f
    4. TreeOctopuss from LG
    5. Russian Mafia - VQ
    6. Ark - AW


  • WoodenShoes
    DJHANSdsfree
    LuckeR



  • Now for a better/ more relevant question, who are the best Vanguards in cmw?



  • @NinjaCub:

    Now for a better/ more relevant question, who are the best Vanguards in cmw?

    knil, patrollin with tolin, padawan, able LG has a few great vans in it, Artorus, Kira (sp? uses spear/saber),

    Mr Boston, despite having a very simple style (zwei, lookdown, press q) racks up kills.

    Del

    Pretty sure cygnus quit, but he was great with all manner of polearms.



  • In pub play I can say that Vanguards are fairly easy to play, but when it comes to competitive play I wouldn’t say it’s completely different. Put a few good vanguards against some top tier archers and it’s extremely annoying/ difficult. After everything you’ve said about having the lowest skill ceiling out of the classes then why are vanguards considered the least overpowered class and why are they getting buffed in the upcoming patch?

    Everyone you mentioned is pretty good though, they’re all top tier players no doubt.



  • @JCash:

    There are a lot of people operating in that highest possible tier for vanguards.

    But, I’m very good

    lol



  • apparently more people need to see skillz … he plays more often now so i’m sure he’ll make the list.



  • @NinjaCub:

    In pub play I can say that Vanguards are fairly easy to play, but when it comes to competitive play I wouldn’t say it’s completely different. Put a few good vanguards against some top tier archers and it’s extremely annoying/ difficult. After everything you’ve said about having the lowest skill ceiling out of the classes then why are vanguards considered the least overpowered class and why are they getting buffed in the upcoming patch?

    Everyone you mentioned is pretty good though, they’re all top tier players no doubt.

    Maybe i’m using the term skill ceiling in a slightly inaccurate way, coupled with you not understanding what i mean. i never thought very much about what it should mean, and what skill is. but

    In my experience in general the amount of variation between a bad archer and a great archer is vast. There is no comparison, a great archer can win lts matches pretty much by himself. If you look at what is in principle possible, an expert archer could technically hit all of his shots and wipe out a team. No human could be that good, but you can get close.

    The gap between a bad vanguard and a great vanguard is not as big. Vanguard as a class doesn’t have as much room to be effective as archer does, just by its nature. With archer you can improve pretty much indefinitely, until you’re hitting every shot its possible to make.

    With vanguard even playing perfectly you have a feint imposed skill ceiling, and then you have to deal with concrete weapon timings/ranges. You cant improve forever, which you can with archer, which is why it has an inherently higher skill ceiling and higher maximum effectiveness, although it is more difficult.

    In my mind vanguard has the least amount of difference between an inexperienced user and a great user in terms of difficulty and effectiveness, compared to the other classes.

    But that is how it should be, if something has a lower skill ceiling, and is easy to pick up, it has to have a lesser maximum effectiveness.



  • @CRUSHED:

    @JCash:

    There are a lot of people operating in that highest possible tier for vanguards.

    But, I’m very good

    lol

    CRUSHED?! lol



  • ;) And I wonder how many people are using undetectable 10-20% speed hacks to speed up those follow up shots.

    Dear torn banner: fix your game, people know.



  • There aren’t even 10 archers in this game that are worth mentioning but I can name a few that annoy me in scrims
    1.) skilliz from ia. |
    2.) Russian mafia from vq.
    3.) ark from AW i believe.
    4.) flotch from f I believe
    5.) bigs would make the list but for obvious reasons he doesn’t.



  • @Dontuhateme:

    There aren’t even 10 archers in this game that are worth mentioning but I can name a few that annoy me in scrims
    1.) skilliz from ia. |
    2.) Russian mafia from vq.
    3.) ark from AW i believe.
    4.) flotch from f I believe
    5.) bigs would make the list but for obvious reasons he doesn’t.

    Ah i forgot about ark he is good.

    There is an archer named Stark who is more than decent.

    by flotch you might mean /fletch/ from koc. Who would make the list but is in KOC so, dubious. I’ve never heard of a flotch



  • Either he’s been subbing in as a merc for f or he joined f under the name flotch because I haven’t seem him with the koc tag recently.



  • @JCash:

    The gap between a bad vanguard and a great vanguard is not as big. Vanguard as a class doesn’t have as much room to be effective as archer does, just by its nature. With archer you can improve pretty much indefinitely, until you’re hitting every shot its possible to make.

    With vanguard even playing perfectly you have a feint imposed skill ceiling, and then you have to deal with concrete weapon timings/ranges. You cant improve forever, which you can with archer, which is why it has an inherently higher skill ceiling and higher maximum effectiveness, although it is more difficult.

    A good vanguard needs a lot of scrim-experience and tactical awareness. I think playing as vanguard is way more difficult then as knight because you’re dying way faster than any other class if you don’t know how to place yourself in a fight. Also, why shouldn’t a Vanguard be able to improve forever? Doesn’t make any sense to me tbh.



  • @afiNity:

    @JCash:

    The gap between a bad vanguard and a great vanguard is not as big. Vanguard as a class doesn’t have as much room to be effective as archer does, just by its nature. With archer you can improve pretty much indefinitely, until you’re hitting every shot its possible to make.

    With vanguard even playing perfectly you have a feint imposed skill ceiling, and then you have to deal with concrete weapon timings/ranges. You cant improve forever, which you can with archer, which is why it has an inherently higher skill ceiling and higher maximum effectiveness, although it is more difficult.

    A good vanguard needs a lot of scrim-experience and tactical awareness. I think playing as vanguard is way more difficult then as knight because you’re dying way faster than any other class if you don’t know how to place yourself in a fight. Also, why shouldn’t a Vanguard be able to improve forever? Doesn’t make any sense to me tbh.

    Can you improve forever at tic tac toe?

    There is such a thing as a skill ceiling, and it is different for different classes. There is also, especially with melee, diminishing returns for improvement, as opposed to the continuous steady improvement you’d see with a ranged weapon.

    The point that vanguards die quicker than knights doesn’t really detract from what I was saying.

    /every/ class needs good tactical awareness. Its /very/ important with a vanguard because they don’t have the tank ability of a knight, or the dodge of a man at arms. Again, doesn’t detract from what i was saying at all. Kind of tangential.

    If you better explained what exactly you don’t get i can help you to understand it.

    But idk how its not intuitively obvious to you that an archer has the capability to be more effective than a vanguard. Imagine a hypothetical ‘optimal vanguard.’ He could still be taken down with weapon spam from multiple opponents. He’d still have to deal with the hard limitations of weapon timings. Limited by his stamina. Still have to contend with feints. Even if he played, constantly executing the optimal move, he would die.

    Think of a hypothetical ‘optimal archer.’ He would just stand somewhere on the map and shoot all enemies from distance, never missing a shot, taking merely a moment to aim, constant headshots. A shield? He shoots your legs without a miss. You manage to somehow get through his entire team and to him? Weapon out, now you have to deal with a full hp full stam melee unit that does 150% backstab damage after possibly being shot on approach.



  • @JCash:

    Imagine a hypothetical ‘optimal vanguard.’

    Think of a hypothetical ‘optimal archer.’

    TWANG

    “GUUUUAHHHHH!!”


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