To Wildwulfy & Co



  • Im really worried looking at those balancing threads, so I had to post this to point it out once more.

    Whenever I read one of those I get the feel its all about dmg and speed. Most posts are about dmg/release/windup/combo numbers. But the weapons are more than just that.

    Heres a few things that might get overlooked easy:

    Swings have the biggest adavantages like easy to hit with and best to get around defense, so balancing their numbers will make them too good.

    Different weapons have different hitboxes but there seem to be no data about it. This would be needed to really balance them.

    Currently it seems to me the beta changes will change alot how fighting will play out. Should we really discuss balancing weapons with huge changes coming?

    Weapons should feel unique. Getting rid of differences because one attack will suck on a weapon is not the way to go (non pointy weapons getting a quick low dmg stab to interrupt).

    Feel free to add more. Sorry if it feels like spam to you but I never got a response on that subject and its important to me.



  • I agree that the number scrutiny does very little good for the game.

    There are more factors than numbers that make a weapon good or bad. Animations for example. Analysing numbers and coming to a conclusion without a lot of playtesting is a bad idea.



  • Would be neat if wildfury added the drawtracers for every weapon as well.



  • Wolfy knows the numbers, and they don’t lie.



  • Hello Towe, I apreciate that you follow my Weapon Talk threads, and that you’ve cared enough to come up with a couple of solutions that may improve those threads, though I’m mostly here to explain why I’ve mostly put things up in the way they are right now.

    Towe: Whenever I read one of those I get the feel its all about dmg and speed. Most posts are about dmg/release/windup/combo numbers. But the weapons are more than just that.

    It is mostly the best way to calculate and see if the weapon is overpowered or underpowered by looking at the values it has, weapon animation and others are a tad hard to calculate, but you are right that these are also important in the weapon balance, though I’m not sure how to add those into the spreadsheet.

    Towe: Different weapons have different hitboxes but there seem to be no data about it. This would be needed to really balance them.

    All weapon Swings and Stabs have a kind of 0.1 thickness line called Swing traces. Those applies even for those weapons that looks like they are suppose to have a larger “Hitbox”.

    Xylvion: Would be neat if wildfury added the drawtracers for every weapon as well.

    Yes it would, though I’m not sure how to do that, I might just add a picture of the actual swing-traces for each attack in the threads.

    Thank you all for your contrubution and time.



  • I am still confused as to why Martin’s spreadsheet (not his responsibility to update) does not include ranges.



  • Thank you for the detailed answer wulfy, glad to hear all that!
    @wildwulfy:

    All weapon Swings and Stabs have a kind of 0.1 thickness line called Swing traces. Those applies even for those weapons that looks like they are suppose to have a larger “Hitbox”.

    This made me scoop.

    I played quite some poleaxe in my early days, and I always had the impression I had to be more exact with it than with other weapons. Is that only rumors? I must admit I never tested it in a controlled enviroment. When I saw Hexens video where he states what I thought I also experienced it became a fact for me…



  • The thickness of Swing tracers is the same for every attack in the game. You can see them yourself if you write in the console:

    aoc_drawtracer 1
    


  • @gregcau:

    I am still confused as to why Martin’s spreadsheet (not his responsibility to update) does not include ranges.

    It is because he is unable to obtain a exact value copy of the weapon reach since its hardcoded I think, so in order to get a reach that is about the exact one, you’d have to do a heck a lot of comparison and that kind of things. We might get 100% accurate weapon reach showing in the Weapon selection UI soon.



  • @Martin:

    The thickness of Swing tracers is the same for every attack in the game. You can see them yourself if you write in the console:

    Thank you, I know that.

    Thing is hit tracers alone wont do anything. There needs to be some sort of hit box for head, torso and legs.

    Would be nice to get a statement from the devs if its really the same for all weapons, cause it doesnt feel like it is to me…


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