EU meeting about the current beta build



  • Had a meeting with over 32 members from the competetive community. Most of them were from EU but we had some people from the Merica’s as wel. Names like BB, Nova, HeightofAbsurdity, Clayton Bigsby, Root King and probably others.

    General Consensus one the current Beta Patch:

    -No feint in last 200ms at the end of the windup
    -Combo feint to parry with heavy stamina drain and parry in recovery.
    -Scaled feint windows, relative to the windup time.
    -Ranged weapons no longer flinch on hit (attack is canceled instead), and can now cancel attack at any time. => To be discussed

    Vanguard Charge Improvements:

    ->make the swing more controllalble
    ->Lower stamina drain for using the attack
    -> Make the yell later into the charge so it can be used as a surprise attack
    -> Make the charge attack go through parry, so it can hit multiple people. Not damage wise.
    -> one hit for spears on knights close to one hits on knights with charged swing attacks.

    Discussed Weapons

    ->Falchion
    slash damage type keep it swingblunt
    stab 0.425
    overhead combo 0.625

    ->Dane Axe
    0.425 release time on overhead and slashes to fix drag and range.
    overhead combo to 0.65 from 0.625 to compansate the quickness from release speed

    More weaponsand others topics will be discussed next meeting.



  • Scaled feint windows are completely unnecessary.

    0.2 seconds is 0.2 seconds no matter how long the rest of the windup takes. At the very least they shouldn’t be dependant on windup time, but on how long it typically takes the weapon to reach you when it starts release.



  • I think scaled feint times are good. It means small fast weapons can only be feinted early in the windup, this makes them easier to parry as they are bastardly hard at the moment. It also gives more distinction to weapons. I like this.

    I approve of you meeting minutes.



  • @Toll:

    I think scaled feint times are good. It means small fast weapons can only be feinted early in the windup, this makes them easier to parry as they are bastardly hard at the moment. It also gives more distinction to weapons. I like this.

    I approve of you meeting minutes.

    But the fact that they are easier to feint with comes from the fact that they generally have a faster RELEASE time, not windup. The goal is to make it so there is a set window of at least .2 that is between non-feintable start and when the weapon hits you. The length of the windup is irrelevant in this. The speed at the start of release is what determines how hard it is to react to certain weapons at the moment.

    This is why it’s very easy to feint with the bardiche right now in live, because it hits instantly after windup ends in facehug range.



  • Agreed.

    200ms unfeintable is the same window for reaction time as any other weapon. If people are worried about ‘preparation’ time because of a shorter windup, then they aren’t truly reacting to the feint; they are reacting to the stigma that a fast 1-hander holds.



  • How about have some pub players in those meetings.



  • From what I’ve heard the meetings are already large enough to make sure some people don’t get heard. Don’t see any reason why they can’t be recorded if people want to listen in, but there doesn’t need to be any more voices.



  • @lemonater47:

    How about have some pub players in those meetings.

    BB was there, wasn’t he?



  • @lemonater47:

    How about have some pub players in those meetings.

    To what end? Explain to me what insight pub players could possibly bring to balance discussions. Everyone who is on the council understands what pub play is like and remembers their time as a less experienced player, so that angle is already covered. All you would accomplish by having random pub players is bogging down the discussion because they likely won’t be aware of some of the things discussed, let alone how changing them would affect the rest of the game.



  • To what end? Explain to me what insight pub players could possibly bring to balance discussions.

    I’m a lvl 49 Pub Player. I played in very successful Clans for other games many years ago. Just because someone isn’t in a Clan it doesn’t mean they can’t know the game to a very high level.



  • @Toll:

    To what end? Explain to me what insight pub players could possibly bring to balance discussions.

    I’m a lvl 49 Pub Player. I played in very successful Clans for other games many years ago. Just because someone isn’t in a Clan it doesn’t mean they can’t know the game to a very high level.

    Right, but lemonator’s post implies that the balance council doesn’t take into account pub play, which it does.



  • @Toll:

    I’m a lvl 49 Pub Player.

    You ready to reach rank 50 together brotha?



  • I can’t be far off. I look forward to shooting laser beams from eyes and calling lighting on my foe each time I feint.

    I do think the council is taking pubs into consideration. Remember this game is nothing without the casual player and is nothing without the hardcore gamer, you need both and both need to be happy.

    Just don’t take my combo-feint->parry away, combo feints I can do with or without, but combo->feint->parry I like very much.



  • @Toll:

    I can’t be far off. I look forward to shooting laser beams from eyes and calling lighting on my foe each time I feint.

    I do think the council is taking pubs into consideration. Remember this game is nothing without the casual player and is nothing without the hardcore gamer, you need both and both need to be happy.

    Just don’t take my combo-feint->parry away, combo feints I can do with or without, but combo->feint->parry I like very much.

    Hopefuly in today’s patch you’ll be seeing combo-parry and parries in recovery as a replacement for combo-feint to parry.



  • All I do is play on official servers with all of the newbies, so I have plenty of perspective on pub play ;)

    Anyway - this EU meeting wasn’t a council meeting. It was a meeting of competitive EU players and a few NA. The council later discussed the things discussed during the EU meeting, as well as dodges and some other beta stuff, and agreed on some solutions for the next beta that I consider pretty solid.



  • @BB:

    @Toll:

    I can’t be far off. I look forward to shooting laser beams from eyes and calling lighting on my foe each time I feint.

    I do think the council is taking pubs into consideration. Remember this game is nothing without the casual player and is nothing without the hardcore gamer, you need both and both need to be happy.

    Just don’t take my combo-feint->parry away, combo feints I can do with or without, but combo->feint->parry I like very much.

    Hopefuly in today’s patch you’ll be seeing combo-parry and parries in recovery as a replacement for combo-feint to parry.

    This isn’t good enough. I made a big post in the beta forum about why this won’t work.



  • @NabsterHax:

    @BB:

    @Toll:

    I can’t be far off. I look forward to shooting laser beams from eyes and calling lighting on my foe each time I feint.

    I do think the council is taking pubs into consideration. Remember this game is nothing without the casual player and is nothing without the hardcore gamer, you need both and both need to be happy.

    Just don’t take my combo-feint->parry away, combo feints I can do with or without, but combo->feint->parry I like very much.

    Hopefuly in today’s patch you’ll be seeing combo-parry and parries in recovery as a replacement for combo-feint to parry.

    This isn’t good enough. I made a big post in the beta forum about why this won’t work.

    Really? You’ll be able to parry in more situations than in Live though.



  • @BB:

    @NabsterHax:

    @BB:

    Hopefuly in today’s patch you’ll be seeing combo-parry and parries in recovery as a replacement for combo-feint to parry.

    This isn’t good enough. I made a big post in the beta forum about why this won’t work.

    Really? You’ll be able to parry in more situations than in Live though.

    Doesn’t matter how much you can parry if the other guy knows you can only parry. 2 handers will rely completely on people giving them parries in order to keep control, and when people stop their old bad habits and realise this 2handers will be pretty much useless because you can’t keep control.

    Will make public play more bareable, but it’s a bad change for comp.



  • If a two hander misses an attack they’ve already lost control though.



  • @BB:

    If a two hander misses an attack they’ve already lost control though.

    The problem is that they lose control if they HIT an attack.

    In live, the 1hander would take the hit and then have to go for another hit trade to fully gain control of the fight. If you’re using a 1hander you’re probably a class that dies in 2 hits.

    In the beta you can tank 1 hit and the steal control completely, because after a hit a 2hander can only do as much as if it had missed.

    It’s all explained in a bit more detail here: viewtopic.php?f=89&t=14430


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