The Rapier a new weapon designed for Duels



  • Alright I want to make suggestion to a new weapon for the Man at Arms I think it would be suiting for the Man at Arms to have a rapier like this

    http://www.photo-dictionary.com/photofi … rapier.jpg

    I know a lot of people are going to say oh there is already plenty of stabbing weapons and such or maybe that it is not realistic or suited to chivalry’s unknown time period. Well when I play chivalry I say wow this is quite fun because of the nice combat system I never happen to quote on its realisticness. Also the rapier would be quite fun for duels and stuff. Now you can reply with a complaint or anything or other fun recommendations or ideas for the rapier



  • 13th century.

    Not 17th.



  • @lemonater47:

    13th century.

    Not 17th.

    Would actually not be that different from a Vanguard wielding a Polehammer or a Zweihänder or the Knight wielding a Kite shield. “History” is a really sub-par argument regarding Chivalry.

    Personally, I do not like the rapier because the typical style of this weapon does not fit the theme of the game that much. This weapon is smooth and elegant, often quite fancy looking, and somewhat assosiated with civillian clothing rather than the military. The style of the game is pretty rough and brute-ish, and a rapier really… isnt.

    Also, how should a design “for duels” work?

    Between swords, shortswords and daggers, which role would a rapier have that would make it
    a) useful,
    b) balanced and
    c) play unique when compared to the other sword-like weapons?
    I currently cannot think of any.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    @lemonater47:

    13th century.

    Not 17th.

    Would actually not be that different from a Vanguard wielding a Polehammer or a Zweihänder or the Knight wielding a Kite shield. “History” is a really sub-par argument regarding Chivalry.

    Personally, I do not like the rapier because the typical style of this weapon does not fit the theme of the game that much. This weapon is smooth and elegant, often quite fancy looking, and somewhat assosiated with civillian clothing rather than the military. The style of the game is pretty rough and brute-ish, and a rapier really… isnt.

    Also, how should a design “for duels” work?

    Between swords, shortswords and daggers, which role would a rapier have that would make it
    a) useful,
    b) balanced and
    c) play unique when compared to the other sword-like weapons?
    I currently cannot think of any.

    I don’t know why your complaining about the kite Shield but the pole hammer and zweihander were only 100 years later. Rapier was 400 years later. And it only latest for 100 years itself as the sabre was far superior an it became popular again.

    A dagger would have a better chance of blocking things than a rapier. It would Bend and snap.



  • Rapier and Zweihander arent actually that far away timewise.

    Zweihander was first used in 15th century, Rapier in early 16th…



  • @lemonater47:

    I don’t know why your complaining about the kite Shield

    I guess he means the Agatha Knight using the Kite shield. Which isn’t that unbelievable either. You mostly associate knights in shining armour with heater shields, and you associate kite shields with early and middle medieval foot soldiers. The kite works with the Mason Knight because he looks like he’s an 10th-11th century saxon/viking/rus whatever. Saxons started using kites, as well as vikings to some degree, dunno about rus. Agatha looks more like a knight in shining armour, although only arms, legs and head are armored with plate, and for him a heater would fit better, but a kite is not out of the question.



  • @SavageBeatings:

    @lemonater47:

    I don’t know why your complaining about the kite Shield

    I guess he means the Agatha Knight using the Kite shield. Which isn’t that unbelievable either. You mostly associate knights in shining armour with heater shields, and you associate kite shields with early and middle medieval foot soldiers. The kite works with the Mason Knight because he looks like he’s an 10th-11th century saxon/viking/rus whatever. Saxons started using kites, as well as vikings to some degree, dunno about rus. Agatha looks more like a knight in shining armour, although only arms, legs and head are armored with plate, and for him a heater would fit better, but a kite is not out of the question.

    Its just the shoulders and the face mask thingy (what’s it called) over the helmet that’s outta place. And plate arms were around but not used much, they came around and started getting made lots when in one of the crusades and plates arms got really sweaty and soldiers didn’t like them. Plate legs were common.

    Full plate knights which everyone thinks the Agathian knight is were in the 15th century mostly. And many of them didn’t even have shields. Knights on foot were men at arms then.



  • I am pretty sure the Agatha Knight wears a breastplate or at least a coat of plates, covered with garment.

    However I wasn´t complaining about anything. I was merely stating that the history argument is pretty weak regarding Chivalry, as it is a fantasy setting. As I stated above that does not mean “anything goes”, since there certainly is a style/theme the game is trying to achieve - in which the rapier does not fit, in my opinion. I am just saying you should not argue “it does not fit because that is not historical”.



  • Yea, this is probably the best argument in the thread:

    @Don_Kanaille:

    Personally, I do not like the rapier because the typical style of this weapon does not fit the theme of the game that much. This weapon is smooth and elegant, often quite fancy looking, and somewhat assosiated with civillian clothing rather than the military. The style of the game is pretty rough and brute-ish, and a rapier really… isnt.



  • the father of those “elegant” weapons is actually the longsword. look it up if you dont trust me.
    but we already have a “brute” version of the rapier. the flippin sword of war (sow) which is perfect for stabbing.

    (my apologies for bringin this in but sow needs a nerf).



  • Don is right - rapiers just wouldnt fit.

    I dont see what niche they’d drop into anyway: a one handed fast stabbing sword? Already have norse sword.

    Plus, excluding time periods, to put it in laymans terms: i’m pretty sure rapiers were used by haughty italian nobles to prod each other with when they disagreed about shit - rather than as an effective weapon on a battlefield. Sure the maul and double axe are not historically accurate, but at least they sort of look appropriate/effective battlefield weapons.

    I cant imagine a bloke dancing around with a rapier slaying knights and vanguards tbh - it’d just look wrong. I’m not saying ‘realism realism realism REALISM’, it’d just feel out of place - whilst everything already in as weapons sort of feels like it should be.

    PLUS TB literally stated they wernt going to add any more weapons - i think ever, so its pretty pointless even discussing it.



  • I want it soooo muuuuuch.

    @Triumphant:

    I dont see what niche they’d drop into anyway: a one handed fast stabbing sword? Already have norse sword.

    It’d be a good anti-van weapon. And no MAA really doesn’t have a good stabby weapon; norse has the same stab windup and release as the Broad.



  • Does anyone still remember how much “fun” the norse was on release when you could do stab combos? That’s kinda how i imagine fighting against a rapier. Only it has more reach and you can hardly see the blade.
    Thanks but no thanks. :)



  • @carrion:

    Does anyone still remember how much “fun” the norse was on release when you could do stab combos? That’s kinda how i imagine fighting against a rapier. Only it has more reach and you can hardly see the blade.
    Thanks but no thanks. :)

    Haha why would you try to imagine a new weapon to be overpowered? Wouldn’t it make more sense to imagine a balanced weapon that has proper windups, range, and visibility?



  • @BB:

    I want it soooo muuuuuch.

    @Triumphant:

    I dont see what niche they’d drop into anyway: a one handed fast stabbing sword? Already have norse sword.

    It’d be a good anti-van weapon. And no MAA really doesn’t have a good stabby weapon; norse has the same stab windup and release as the Broad.

    What about the shortsword? As a MMA, you can even have it besides your primary. I usually pick this weapon when playing Archer and it is almost silly how devastating this tiny sword can be, especially against Vanguards. Often only 3 quick hits, lighting-fast counter-stabs and if you see your opponent parry just miss on purpose and you`ll get a fre hit if you just combo.

    The shortsword of course does not pack as much punch as the Norse Sword used to have, but that thing in its old version was just unbalanced, especially when used by a MMA.



  • @BB:

    @carrion:

    Does anyone still remember how much “fun” the norse was on release when you could do stab combos? That’s kinda how i imagine fighting against a rapier. Only it has more reach and you can hardly see the blade.
    Thanks but no thanks. :)

    Haha why would you try to imagine a new weapon to be overpowered? Wouldn’t it make more sense to imagine a balanced weapon that has proper windups, range, and visibility?

    Because it’s a weapon that’s obviously useless for anything besides stabbing in RL and…. just look at it.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    What about the shortsword?

    I’d rather have a primary stabbing weapon.

    @carrion:

    Because it’s a weapon that’s obviously useless for anything besides stabbing in RL and…. just look at it.

    Spears are just for stabbing and they play out fine in this game. They are very easy to block.

    And it looks plenty noticeable to me:

    Pretty sure you’re imagining current day Foils.



  • As a fencer I’d be mad if it wasn’t completely overpowered. Seriously within the context of this game it would be devastatingly strong or completely unrealistic. Also whoever said the rapier would break during a parry is a silly little ruffian and should be man slapped, as is proper.



  • From my limited time in sword-play, a parry, even a full-on block (as in, with a shield) isn’t about STOPPING the force. You’d lose much more than your sword if you tried that. It’s about a catch and redirect motion, from which you can then stab, slash, close distance, etc.

    A properly made (read: Expensive) rapier is divided into nine (I think) sections of blade, each with its own temper and spring.


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