Discussion on how to carry out bans
kywild last edited by
I’m an old semi-pro CS 1.3-1.6 player and I can tell you that the twitches and the snaping is nothing compared to the aim of good cs players. I’m a twitcher myself in CS because twitch shots allow you to make that final quick adjustment to hit dead on because there’s always a slight delay when you press the fire button, making a quick twitch for an extra snap makes the shot count more often than not. It’s hard to explain but it lets you react to last milisecond deviations you normally wouldn’t react to if you were holding your aim still.
Yeah… it looks very suspicious but without definite proof I think you’re walking on thin ice banning people from the tournament.
And no, this is not talking negatively about either party as kimiko stated we weren’t allowed to do. This post is made towards torn banner directly and I feel I should be allowed to voice my concern. I’m not trying do defend one person, I am trying to defend every player in the community because it’s very easy to make someone look like they are cheating.
I’ve been falsely banned from servers in CS more times than I could possibly count, mostly accused of aimbot and sometimes wallhack. Not trying to make this thread into saying that your judgment was wrong in this case, but it’s the fact that it MIGHT be. You should look into some anti-cheat software instead of trying to judge players by hand because in the end if the game actually grows a bigger scene, there will be many many falsely accused players and it would suck to see them banned from tournaments or even end up in a global ban list just because some people thinks it looks too unreal.
It’s about how this is handled by the community and by torn banner. I’ve honestly seen more suspicious shit going on at LAN events on dedicated competition machines that’s been 100% clean so something looking weird as hell is not always proof of someone cheating. People playing in a level above yourself always look suspicious. On duel servers I get accused of speedhacking on a daily basis for example because the beginners don’t understand how I angle, accelerate and chain my attacks.
Let’s keep the conversation focused in anti-cheat and not personal attacks.
What would it take to create/implement/buy an anti-cheat client like CEVO or ESEA has?
It would already enough if TBS could get VAC working, seeing as VAC got its shit together in the past few months and this game is very unpopular at private cheat sites. (THankfully)
It would easily ban all the public cheats. Also thankfully due to the nature of this game hacking in this game isnt nearly as effective as lets say CS. And if you want to hack efficient in this game, it will be noticed after a time, see our recent example.
ChuckingIt last edited by
I edited this thing up to keep it from being closed. Now it is a general discussion about how bans should be carried out. Lets keep it that way.
Thanks ass chucker!
rumpelstiltskin last edited by
I love the censorship on official forums, it’s like communism all over again.
I cannot agree more with ky.
Bans, at the very least, should be given consideration over a much longer period with chance for the accused hacker to explain himself and demonstrate his legitimacy. This would at least encourage well thought out and fully backed proof to be given, and make “cheat scare” tactics ineffective.
Innocent until proven guilty I say. A tournament winner’s prize can always be withheld until the accusation is dealt with. It is impossible to go back in time and allow a team to compete with their full team if their banned player is later found innocent.
Let’s stay on topic folks. If we divert this thread to talking about specific people it will be locked. What we should discuss is how we can handle these things in the future and possibly detect with 100% accuracy if someone is hacking.
What we should discuss is how we can handle these things in the future and possibly detect with 100% accuracy if someone is hacking.
Input of legitimately tested and non-buggy anti-cheat programs that won’t be announced when they are being put in.
All people who “claim” to be on official admin anti-hacker routines or whatever councils should know that it takes minimum WEEKS to correctly identify and assess a true aimbotter, instead of a couple hours.
ChuckingIt last edited by
Alright that was my last time doing any clean up on this thread. If it goes back to previous events then I’m locking it. Any questions regarding specific events can be handled in PM’s.
On duel servers I get accused of speedhacking on a daily basis for example because the beginners don’t understand how I angle, accelerate and chain my attacks.
There’s a difference between new players viewing something and claiming it not be legit, and experienced players weighing in and providing peer opinions. At the end of the day, it was Torn Banner’s decision, not the players.
When I first watched the videos in question, I went into viewing them with a grain of salt; I did not expect to find either proof or evidence of any infractions, and was expecting high level play. But there were too many suspect moments, too many inexplicable occurrences. I didn’t watch the videos with the mindset of “Oooo let’s nail this guy”, but rather “You’re wrong, I’ll see and provide my opinion.”
Without any coded-in anti-cheat protection for the game, there is only other way to review these kinds of allegations: peer (or developer, or tournament ref) review. The ideal solution is obviously an anti-cheat module, but even those can be circumvented. Thus, tournament refs for all major gaming competitions since their inception, almost.
You bring up valid points that perhaps the execution of the ban may have been mishandled, but I believe that swift and deliberate action needs to be taken to discourage this from hampering our (already small) competitive community. If it was anyone in any other clan, including interitus, caught cheating, I would feel the same way.