Is Feinting Killing Chivalry?



  • Since I figure kicking dead horses is fun, I sorta feel like addressing what is one of the most used moves/tactics in this game, feinting. Who doesn’t know it, it’s the move that has spawned such a massive debate that I swear the majority of posts in this section are related to it, so I may as well toss my coin in with the rest of everyone’s, only for it to be washed away in the sea of forum rage, never to be seen again.

    First, I’m level 38 with 254 hours into Chivalry. Needless to say, I know how to play. I consider myself quite good at the game and should I run across anyone reading this I’d like to think I’d stand quite a chance against them. I’m not the best obviously, I have no delusions of invincibility, but i do know all of the game’s mechanics very well, and it takes quite a lot of skill to beat me.

    Or at least I think it does. The truth of that sentence depends entirely on whether you count feints as skill. This is kinda what I want to talk about, I’ve seen a lot of people in this game, some low levels, but a strange amount of people lvl 35+ saying, outright, that they think feinting is a skillful game mechanic. Generally when I say I hate feinting or that I think a mindless 3 year old could pull it off they’ll screech to me about how skilled they are and how I suck at both blocking and using feints, but also at the game itself.

    And then I’ll challenge them to a fight with no feints. And win 95 percent of the time.

    It seems to me that feinting has become too relied upon a mechanic in comparison to anything else. For example, ducking, I know no one who uses it except for me, yet I use it all the time to avoid lmb swings from facehuggers and zweihanders while leaving them open for attack. Feinting on the other hand, while completely different in nature, is used by almost everyone I fight. The biggest difference I can see in using them, aside from the obvious ones, is that ducking isn’t exactly easy. Anyone can pull off a feint, but few can pull off a duck.

    What am I getting at? Well, look at it this way. If every tactic took as much skill as ducking did then we’d all have to use several to get through fights. Feinting however, seems so easy and exploitable that instead of learning the game’s advanced mechanics, people are just learning it and then never stopping with it. If feinting was harder to use, somehow, then I think we’d see a lot more fluid combat with people using the all of game’s actual fighting moves to win, instead of just one of them.

    And that isn’t even touching my opinion on the fairness of feints. The animations are buggy and with the game’s trademark lag they seem almost instant. Blocking a feint requires superhuman reflexes or an annoyingly large amount of training, and even then you’ll still fall for them from time to time. Generally they just turn the combat into a coin flip, if they’re feinting and you’re being aggressive, you win, if they’re feinting and you’re not, you lose. I generally do not play aggressively, I’ll almost always wait for someone to attack me first so I can counter them into a combo, or duck and attack them before they can recover, so I find myself at such a massive disadvantage. It’s erks me somewhat that there is a move that counters my entire play style that is available and easy to use by everyone.

    Well, my rant is starting to get a little convoluted so I’ll try to wrap things up. Feinting seems to be murdering the diversity of combat in Chivalry and the fact that it is so effective against such a wide number of players just seems unfair. What do you think of the move?

    And, uh well, try to be polite. The general response whenever someone speaks out against feinting is, “You just suck, get better,” which strikes me as very immature. Try to hold a semblance of decency. Please?

    TL;DR - I don’t like feinting. What do you think?



  • @FalseSavi0ur:

    TL;DR - I don’t like feinting. What do you think?

    I think they should nerf MAA even more.



  • Feinting was gonna get some heavy nerf anyway.

    @besplatan:

    @FalseSavi0ur:

    TL;DR - I don’t like feinting. What do you think?

    I think they should nerf MAA even more.

    Yeah it’s kind of sad what’s going to happen to the MAA class. I’m trusting that the dodge nerf isn’t going to be crippling, since it’s all they have to help them hold their own against other classes.



  • Feinting is the most used tactic? Not it ain’t.

    I see kiting more.



  • Feinting is kinda lame.



  • Feinting is fine.



  • Is feinting killing chivalry?

    Nah



  • If there is anything that is “killing” Chivalry, it’s a lack of content, plain and simple. People get bored and move on.



  • Feinting is like a minigame. Honestly, I do not like feinting. But it makes the game much more interesting and buggy ofc.



  • @Pilgore:

    If there is anything that is “killing” Chivalry, it’s a lack of content, plain and simple. People get bored and move on.

    There are lots of ‘minor’ problems in chivalry, but this is the stand-out major one. More TO maps would mean more player retention, simple as. I’ve been playing since launch, and I’ve known lots of people that have loved the game, but quit over the months. Most of these have quit directly over boredom of playing the same maps over and over again, far more than have quit because of various mechanical ‘quirks’. Every week I see fewer of my steam friends list playing this game, and my steam friends list is now ONLY populated with good players I met in Chivalry, as of writing this, 2 of them are playing chivalry….a couple of months ago it would have been virtually all of them.

    I think there are other small things that could be done to improve player retention, things that wouldn’t be a massive development effort, for example:

    • Herding new players from the tutorial into newbie servers. Not just telling them they exist, but almost forcing them to play on the newbie servers first. (Continuing the tutorial will take you to a WORKING server browser with all but newbie servers filtered out).

    • Explaining the skill curve/ceiling in the tutorial, making sure players know that there is more to this game than the average FPS.

    • Explaining the ranking system and making new players understand that there is a big difference in skill between high rank players and new players, and if they take on a rank 40 at rank 5, they’re very likely to lose. It should also be exposed that with practice the new players will be able to compete with the higher rank players, and it’s NOT MAGIC what they do, it’s the result of lots of practice, and a lot of people treating this game as a bona fide hobby and not just a distraction. This should be painted as the good thing it is, as it means the game they’ve just started playing is challenging, deep, and rewarding.

    • Having advance tutorial sections, available at any time, but recommended after say, rank 20. These tutorials will cover concepts such as delays, accels, feints to parry, mind games, fake outs and other advanced strategies.

    • HACK DETECTION.

    • Customisation. People want to feel their guy is special, and represents them.

    • Better single player. I’m not talking about M&B single player (although that would be the best thing in the history of everything ever), but just competent BOTS to practice again. BOTS need better AI, and then we could have mini-games like survivor (tekken), peasant zombie survivor mode (cleanse stonehill of zombies?), dojo mode, where you can set BOTS up with different behaviours and loadouts to practice against, etc.

    This game needs content more than anything else. We need a strong playerbase for a meaningful competitive scene to arise. This game has so much potential for casual and competitive play, lets help TB realise it



  • I alomost never feint. Yeah, every unskilled loser can do it. But I’m also not crying because of it.
    If someone feints me and kills me by doing so, it’s fine… I think: “Well he could have done something more honorable.” but I stay silent. The only thing I really HATE is feintspamming. And don’t even know why people do it. Sometimes they do feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint and then they attack. I blocked 3 times already when they finally attacked. Well I guess it’s a good way to get killed in a fight with more than just 2 people. You get rid of your whole staminabar just feinting one guy and because of that the other one will kill you.

    Feinting needs to get a bigger penality in the gamemechanic. More stamina drain? Some little cooldown?
    Well I wrote that many times. But I guess it has never been read by anyone because topics about feinting are just FLOODED with replies. Noone can keep silent, same here, I also can’t stay silent about it.

    So what I’m wanting to say with this text: Feinting will be fine when it’s changed. I don’t think it should be removed. I guess you should only be able to do ONE feint before you actually attack and after the feint you’ll need to wait a TINY bit longer until you can strike. So if the feint works will now depend on the reflexes of the attacked one. If he blocked really early when the feinter feinted, he will be able to block again when the strike, that HAS to be a real strike, comes. If he blocked late when he was feinted, he will still be recovering from the block and can be hit. So it won’t be THAT dishonorable anymore.

    Feel free to tell us your opinion about this.



  • @Harry:

    @Pilgore:

    If there is anything that is “killing” Chivalry, it’s a lack of content, plain and simple. People get bored and move on.

    There are lots of ‘minor’ problems in chivalry, but this is the stand-out major one. More TO maps would mean more player retention, simple as. I’ve been playing since launch, and I’ve known lots of people that have loved the game, but quit over the months. Most of these have quit directly over boredom of playing the same maps over and over again, far more than have quit because of various mechanical ‘quirks’. Every week I see fewer of my steam friends list playing this game, and my steam friends list is now ONLY populated with good players I met in Chivalry, as of writing this, 2 of them are playing chivalry….a couple of months ago it would have been virtually all of them.

    I think there are other small things that could be done to improve player retention, things that wouldn’t be a massive development effort, for example:

    • Herding new players from the tutorial into newbie servers. Not just telling them they exist, but almost forcing them to play on the newbie servers first. (Continuing the tutorial will take you to a WORKING server browser with all but newbie servers filtered out).

    • Explaining the skill curve/ceiling in the tutorial, making sure players know that there is more to this game than the average FPS.

    • Explaining the ranking system and making new players understand that there is a big difference in skill between high rank players and new players, and if they take on a rank 40 at rank 5, they’re very likely to lose. It should also be exposed that with practice the new players will be able to compete with the higher rank players, and it’s NOT MAGIC what they do, it’s the result of lots of practice, and a lot of people treating this game as a bona fide hobby and not just a distraction. This should be painted as the good thing it is, as it means the game they’ve just started playing is challenging, deep, and rewarding.

    • Having advance tutorial sections, available at any time, but recommended after say, rank 20. These tutorials will cover concepts such as delays, accels, feints to parry, mind games, fake outs and other advanced strategies.

    • HACK DETECTION.

    • Customisation. People want to feel their guy is special, and represents them.

    • Better single player. I’m not talking about M&B single player (although that would be the best thing in the history of everything ever), but just competent BOTS to practice again. BOTS need better AI, and then we could have mini-games like survivor (tekken), peasant zombie survivor mode (cleanse stonehill of zombies?), dojo mode, where you can set BOTS up with different behaviours and loadouts to practice against, etc.

    This game needs content more than anything else. We need a strong playerbase for a meaningful competitive scene to arise. This game has so much potential for casual and competitive play, lets help TB realise it

    I think SDK and mod tool support will solve a lot of these problems, we need to get that thing out there and WORKING so that people can get their stuff in-game. Torn Banner is a small company, community mods is exactly what this game needs.



  • Feint is one of the bigger reasons the game is dying.

    Do I hate feint? With passion
    Rank 45 and a lot of duels. I never feint. Unless my opponent does.
    What do I do? Take MAA, any 1h will do and heater shield.
    Whats next? I feint them to oblivion. I feint till their balls explode. Till they leave the server with a bleeding anus. Kill them the next two rounds and then im back as a knight and disabled feint.
    Combining 1h with super fast attacks and overwhelimg attacks which are easy to surpass block/parry AND combined with feints PLUS the speed of a MAA WITH dodge makes me a cheating god.

    I find it EXTREMLY sad when I see a rank +35 feint. Especially when they have a good k/d ratio. Then they deserve a great reason why they suck hard.

    I remember stopping feint at rank 20 or so

    But lately im tired of this game anyway. I take archer, sling and a super high portion of trolling.
    Got a shitload of deaths now (they pretty much win fights all the time). But its so damn fun.
    But even there, I stick to my fighting manners and disable my feinting skills



  • I hate feinting with a passion, it’ pretty much the cheapest thing you can do in Chivalry. The way Chivalry is now, it’s impossible to block feints with any consistency. The only thing you can do is equip a shield, though I’m pretty sure blocking with a shield costs more stamina putting you at a disadvantage.



  • It’s not feinting that needs to get taken away or getting a bigger penalty, Giving it a bigger penalty wouldn’t make sense realistically, I’m annoyed at the fact that sprinting doesn’t tire out a person, Sprinting should be something that is penalized with no actual disadvantage that comes with sprinting over walking other than reduced sound.

    Every class should have a base amount of stamina unique to that class, Man at Arms having the highest amount of stamina and Knight the lowest, Penalize people who’re sprinting around constantly. In my opinion this will make people conserve stamina much more wisely thus reducing the amount of feints a person will want to use.



  • @wyrda78:

    I hate feinting with a passion, it’ pretty much the cheapest thing you can do in Chivalry. The way Chivalry is now, it’s impossible to block feints with any consistency. The only thing you can do is equip a shield, though I’m pretty sure blocking with a shield costs more stamina putting you at a disadvantage.

    Then they’ll just feint a swing and then kick your shield.



  • Stop the feint whinging seriously, it has a significant change in the upcoming patch. Wait for that, play it for 2 weeks then reassess your stance on feints.

    Doing anything else before then is wasting both your time and the readers.



  • @Peter:

    I alomost never feint. Yeah, every unskilled loser can do it. But I’m also not crying because of it.
    If someone feints me and kills me by doing so, it’s fine… I think: “Well he could have done something more honorable.” but I stay silent. The only thing I really HATE is feintspamming. And don’t even know why people do it. Sometimes they do feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint, feint and then they attack. I blocked 3 times already when they finally attacked. […]

    So why aren’t you attacking?



  • I find people who complain of feints also have a tendency to block at nothing. So you attack, they parry, you wait, they parry, you hit…



  • Feinting is not killing the game. The bugs and stupid unnecesary game changes are !!!


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