Do you think overhead lookdown is fair?



  • I’m legitimately interested in some community feedback on this. In game I see a lot of Vanguards and sometimes Knights abusing the glitch to instantly hit their overheads by looking down. Personally, I think this is abusing the system and cheating, but I’ve also seen players say it’s completely fair and legitimate. What do you guys think?



  • The game would be very boring for high level play if these “exploits” were taken out. That’s not to say high level play believes exploits don’t exist, they very much do.

    One sec I’ll get a list of them.

    15d. The following are a list of exploits that are not allowed (As per Rule 15a, this list is far from exhaustive):
    15d.1. Superdodge
    15d.2. Shield clipping
    15d.3. Crossbow reload running
    15d.4. Purposeful Desync
    15d.5. Dodge out of Stun
    15d.6. Bow Drawn Sprint
    15d.7. Weapon switch exploit
    15d.8. Special Daze Float



  • Why would it be boring? You can still feint and all. Cheating isn’t very fun in my opinion.



  • With the right weapon and mouse speed overhead look downs pretty much hit instantly. I find it hilarious that anyone can call these fair. Not to mention many people do them with jumps so the weapon tracer ends up behind you making it even more impossible to block.

    But the high-rankers like this exploit so it will probably become an officially recognized mechanic and never be fixed. Such as the way it is these days.



  • @BB:

    The game would be very boring for high level play if these “exploits” were taken out. That’s not to say high level play believes exploits don’t exist, they very much do.

    One sec I’ll get a list of them.

    15d. The following are a list of exploits that are not allowed (As per Rule 15a, this list is far from exhaustive):
    15d.1. Superdodge
    15d.2. Shield clipping
    15d.3. Crossbow reload running
    15d.4. Purposeful Desync
    15d.5. Dodge out of Stun
    15d.6. Bow Drawn Sprint
    15d.7. Weapon switch exploit
    15d.8. Special Daze Float

    O_O Wow I never knew any of those!



  • @Goden:

    With the right weapon and mouse speed overhead look downs pretty much hit instantly. I find it hilarious that anyone can call these fair. Not to mention many people do them with jumps so the weapon tracer ends up behind you making it even more impossible to block.

    Exactly! Doing this used to result in an immediate kick, but ever since “The Way of the Zweihander” came out it’s common play.



  • @sirwartooth:

    @Goden:

    With the right weapon and mouse speed overhead look downs pretty much hit instantly. I find it hilarious that anyone can call these fair. Not to mention many people do them with jumps so the weapon tracer ends up behind you making it even more impossible to block.

    Exactly! Doing this used to result in an immediate kick, but ever since “The Way of the Zweihander” came out it’s common play.

    The high-rankers have decided that this is now a mechanic and so it’s common place. It’s probably only a matter of time before the beta nerfs to feint and drags will be completely reversed too.



  • Right click.

    Problem solved.



  • viewtopic.php?f=90&t=13452

    @Tibberius:

    Swing acceleration is an intended part of our real time strikes system and it is critical to the game. Without it we would just have canned animations like every other melee game and it wouldn’t feel like you were in control of your sword as you swing it.

    Certainly there are abuses of it though and we plan to address those.

    • Look Down Overheads - This is already “fixed” internally. Basically we have taken the screen speed limiter (that already exists on horizontal slashes and prevents you from doing 360’s while attacking) and applied it to the windup of overheads as well. So you can still lookdown and adjust your swing and make it a bit faster, but not to the extreme,instant levels that you see some players abusing. We have also made swingtrace adjustments to prevent things like the butt end of halberds hitting people instantly with overheads that made this issue even worse.

    • Swing deceleration - Some players have discovered that with the slower weapons you can actually make someone block by attacking and then drag your mouse to the right for long enough that their parry comes down and you hit them with the strike when it comes. This is not intended and I struggled for a while with whether or not it should be a valid tactic or be addressed as it is a very creative maneuver. However at the end of the day these decelerated swings feel wrong, because they aren’t properly shown to your opponent and they generate a ton of confusion. We will likely increase the release speed of the slower weapons so that you can still control your swings like with all other weapons but not to a comical or cartoonish point.



  • In a perfect world with 0ms ping, lookdown overhead would be 100% acceptable. However, a fast overheading weapon such as a bardiche combined with a ping of 100ms can land a hit before the release animation appears to begin.

    Still, the lookdown overhead is as necessary as any other manipulated swing in competitive play. Basically every “move” is heavily dependent on ping, it’s just the nature of the game.

    @Tibberius:
    I like the change to the lookdown overhead. I’m not sure if a nerf to delayed overheads is necessary, but I know that the delay overhead switch into lookdown can be impossible to read. I don’t think there was any problem with delayed slashes.



  • @sirwartooth:

    Why would it be boring? You can still feint and all. Cheating isn’t very fun in my opinion.

    Saying it is cheating is also part of your opinion. An opinion not shared by the majority of high level players or you would see it on that list of legitimately unfair mechanics.



  • @BB:

    @sirwartooth:

    Why would it be boring? You can still feint and all. Cheating isn’t very fun in my opinion.

    Saying it is cheating is also part of your opinion.

    With weapons like the bardiche it causes the hit to happen much faster and the damage appears to come from the weapon shaft rather than the actual tip. I fail to see how this could be called anything other than an exploit.

    Oh wait I do see how. People abuse the crap out of it and don’t want it changed.



  • @Goden:

    With weapons like the bardiche it causes the hit to happen much faster and the damage appears to come from the weapon shaft rather than the actual tip. I fail to see how this could be called anything other than an exploit.

    That’s called a bug, and yes that is unfair which is why it’s already fixed in the next patch.



  • @Goden:

    @BB:

    @sirwartooth:

    Why would it be boring? You can still feint and all. Cheating isn’t very fun in my opinion.

    Saying it is cheating is also part of your opinion.

    With weapons like the bardiche it causes the hit to happen much faster and the damage appears to come from the weapon shaft rather than the actual tip. I fail to see how this could be called anything other than an exploit.

    Oh wait I do see how. People abuse the crap out of it and don’t want it changed.

    completely agree. and its the new players who will build, or kill, this game, not the hardcore. good luck chiv and i hope these exploits get nerfed or removed as foreshadowed



  • @BB:

    An opinion not shared by the majority of high level players

    You bring up high level players a lot. You forget that most players aren’t high level.Even if something may displease the “high level” community, wouldn’t it be better to have the majority of players happy, rather than a few?



  • @Krellus:

    completely agree. and its the new players who will build, or kill, this game, not the hardcore. good luck chiv and i hope these exploits get nerfed or removed as foreshadowed

    Actually, it’s the politics involved at competitive play that will kill this game if anything. Unlike anything in any competitive game I’ve ever witnessed.



  • @sirwartooth:

    @BB:

    An opinion not shared by the majority of high level players

    You bring up high level players a lot. You forget that most players aren’t high level.Even if something may displease the “high level” community, wouldn’t it be better to have the majority of players happy, rather than a few?

    Logically that would be the way to go but right now the majority playerbase is worth less than dirt and any input we give is shunned and ignored.

    Honestly the devs and clanners should just save themselves some time and add minimum rank 35 caps to all their servers so they can completely exclude all the pub players once and for all. Never have to worry about them again so they can circlejerk in peace.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    @Krellus:

    completely agree. and its the new players who will build, or kill, this game, not the hardcore. good luck chiv and i hope these exploits get nerfed or removed as foreshadowed

    Actually, it’s the politics involved at competitive play that will kill this game if anything. Unlike anything in any competitive game I’ve ever witnessed.

    Are you referring to the tournament scandal?



  • how about the block blocking 360 instead and you only got one button to hit with and you have a backmirror as well down in the right corner, cause the left is not as cool.
    The thing is, you can drag overheads as well as stabs and swings, that and knowing when and where to block are some of the functions that take some skill in this game. They are a bit fast though but I believe that’s fixed in the upcoming patch that way some people will stop whining and hopefully the bardiche will be fixed.



  • @Xylvion:

    that take some skill

    No. A few times I’ve done nothing but overhead lookdown with the Zweihander just to make sure that it actually is broken and it’s not just me playing wrong. It was far easier than normal play and I was almost always at the top of the scoreboard.


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