Why are archers so good in hand to hand weapons fighting?



  • Basically, why do archers so often outclass and kill with their small melee weapons (like daggers and short swords) heavily armed and amored knight and vangaurds? it seems very unrealistic how an archer can parry a 2 handed sword with a dagger, or a war hammer with a short sword. btw im a lv 37 vangaud and knight front line fighting kind of chiv player

    i suggest making arches take maybe 25% to 50% from blocks with their small melee weapons (like dagger and kudgel) versus two handed weapons of all kinds, and maybe not take damage but not be able to parry said two handed weapons with small swords (like the scimitar looking one). archers should have more of a disadvantage when fighting vanguards and knights at hand to hand weapons fighting.



  • Why should an archer have an arbitrary nerf to their melee?

    They are already at a disadvantage because of their low health. They are like a MAA with less health and no dodge, what more do you want?

    A good melee player that killed you as an Archer using a Shortsword would probably make shorter work of you as a Knight with a Sword of War. It isn’t the class that killed you, it is the player.

    You only have to hit that archer twice man, heck as a vanguard with some weapons, only once.



  • This isn’t so much a problem with archers as it is with the fast 1H weapons being vastly superior to everything else in 1v1 situations. An archer with a butter knife is often more deadly than a knight with a SoW or Messer.



  • Most of the time people will just underestimate archers. 70% of the time I can get the first hit off as an archer because people don’t expect you to attack first.



  • People just need to learn to take their time against Archers and with small 1handers.

    If you manage to get hit the first time, don’t spam block. Rather, take your time and focus, see him combo or watch his next move, work on your own skills rather than complain a class needs their whole melee nerfed.

    Archers already have a lot of stamina hurt when they block big weapons.
    Let’s be honest, if you are afraid of an Archer with a small dagger, especially while wielding a nice big Vanguard 2h, you need to work on your own skills.

    I always come up against cheeky Archers trying to take me on in duels and they always come out second best, usually missing their head.
    I never need to switch to my secondary for Archers, most that I fight are too confident in the speed of their weapons and lose focus.

    With that said, myself playing 99% Knight, usually 98% using the Messer, can switch to Archer and decimate a lot of other Knights as I know how to melee properly with the daggers. If the opponent has poor parrying skills or get’s overwhelmed by speed, they die.

    I can’t shoot for shit though ;)



  • @wyrda78:

    Most of the time people will just underestimate archers. 70% of the time I can get the first hit off as an archer because people don’t expect you to attack first.

    ^this
    People underestimate me more when I play archer than MAA for example, big mistake from their side.
    And as Toll mentioned, if an archer is better than you in melee he’d probably own you as another class.



  • The culprits are most likely the cudgel and shortsword. They are both unusually effective, and just as deadly as any giant sword.



  • @Goden:

    This isn’t so much a problem with archers as it is with the fast 1H weapons being vastly superior to everything else in 1v1 situations. An archer with a butter knife is often more deadly than a knight with a SoW or Messer.

    Just wanted to enlighten you that even if that is true and will still be true after the next patch, you can always pick the same secondaries as archers or -spoiler alert- even better ones.



  • Well I really can’t complain about the archers in melee combat… Usually I get to kill them, using my reach as an advantage. If that doesn’t work, use your secondary. The health of those guys is low enough. I’m using the greatsword… One chargeattack and you already see their limbs flying around.



  • Their health is low and chances are they’ll die from one hit if they already took an arrow somewhere. That said, I agree that it’s a little silly that a butter knife can block a giant hammer without any penalties. I know the whole archer thing has been discussed thoroughly already, but I tend to agree that at least the heaviest/slowest of 2h should have some sort “bonus” vs daggers and other tiny 1h.

    I don’t think anyone will deny that a slow 2h is often useless if a fast 1h can just cancel each attack. Having the heavier 2h do extra stamina damage/knockback to such fast 1h would not seem too crazy right?



  • i must admit there is nothing worse for me when, im playing with a grand mace or something - and an archer runs in and spam stabs me to death at facehug range with a shortsword, whilst I am powerless to even get an attack off to fight back, even with parry-ripostes. If I even get a parry on that ridiculous thing at that distance.

    Sure, I can kill him in one hit. I just cant get a hit out.



  • Archers have that mental advantage over many opponents.

    Most people class archers as an easy kill.

    A good archer takes advantage of that mentality. Archers in melee are usually highly agressive and it usually pays off. With the faster weapon hey can often get the first hit it and doing he enemy of they try and do something.

    I treat an archer as a man at arms. Lot easier to kill.



  • Getting ganked by two archers or more always feels like a prison shank fest. Nothing you can do about it. Kick them off ledges is fun though.



  • @Tower:

    Their health is low and chances are they’ll die from one hit if they already took an arrow somewhere. That said, I agree that it’s a little silly that a butter knife can block a giant hammer without any penalties. I know the whole archer thing has been discussed thoroughly already, but I tend to agree that at least the heaviest/slowest of 2h should have some sort “bonus” vs daggers and other tiny 1h.

    I don’t think anyone will deny that a slow 2h is often useless if a fast 1h can just cancel each attack. Having the heavier 2h do extra stamina damage/knockback to such fast 1h would not seem too crazy right?

    I agree.



  • There’s a reason why you got a secondary btw, to use it.



  • @lemonater47:

    Archers have that mental advantage over many opponents.

    Most people class archers as an easy kill.

    A good archer takes advantage of that mentality. Archers in melee are usually highly agressive and it usually pays off. With the faster weapon hey can often get the first hit it and doing he enemy of they try and do something.

    I treat an archer as a man at arms. Lot easier to kill.

    I agree with this post. Most people come running like crazy for an easy kill, a lot of them laugh with x9 along the way. Surprise stabbing people like this isn’t very hard and then couple of overheads and its nearly over. Usually they back down after this and you can draw your bow and get 1 or 2 shots to try finish him off without risk.



  • @NaTe:

    People just need to learn to take their time against Archers and with small 1handers.

    Yes because time is something I have when they are sprinting at my face so they can hump my face and spam their tiny little knives.



  • Plus he is probably the only archer, so I can easily take my time and not get shot by the others. Let’s also ignore the fact that archers are often behind the enemy lines, so interruptions couldn’t possibly happen.

    Switching to 1h to fight off an archer seems like reverse logic. The archer is supposed to best at long range. Thus, by negating that range you should have the advantage. Instead, you have to trade in your primary to be able to keep up with him. Really, the only problem with archers is their insane attack speed. If it was a little slower like the MaA I doubt there’d be much of a problem really. In fact, why not just replace the dagger altogether and get the whole issue of blocking with daggers out of the way entirely?



  • I’m surprised people are supporting the current (non-beta) state of archers in melee. They are archers! They should have next to no ability in melee. There should be significant stamina penalties when blocking larger weapons for archers, imo.

    I should also note that I generally don’t have a problem killing archers in 1v1’s, though. Eventually you learn that archers will almost always beat you in speed, so you just have to be patient.



  • I can’t recall to have ever beaten a good player in melee back in my clan days as an archer… They just run at you, already knowing your tricks are limited, take a wilde guess what it’ll be this time, then trade you to death even if they have guessed wrong. Killing an archer IS as easy as you want it to be.

    Archer has melee capabilities because he has also a rogue like role in clashes, where he’s supposed to backstab instead of shoot their teammates.

    Besides that, archer is weaker in melee than all other classes in all aspects. Parrying a maul with dagger isn’t realstic but there is a stamina penatly (you can only do that like 2 times before your stamina is drained) and you cannot call an unparry-able weapon balanced. It’s no problem with the archer class that stamina is probably not worth what you want it to be in general.
    Plus, reading about feints in this forum… you should apparently dig a hole of shame and hide in it if your attacks ever get parried by anyone.

    Whatever melee capabilities archer have is not meant to back them up in duels, so if you lose one it’s your fault- not the classes. If you lose 2v1 or 3v1 it’s -again not the classes fault, but yours for either over-estimating yourself or having poor strategic skills.
    Complains about the game forcing you to adapt your weapon choice are just childish… You want a less complex game? Go ahead there are plenty out there.


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